To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Just reraed my post with Ireland then.

You can bet every dollar you have that if Irish soldiers representing the Irish government invaded and went house to house killing childern and raping and took 100s of hostages and was threatening to execute them the Bristh Army would bomb them and go in to get the hostages.

This is literally the most basic formost thing a government is supposed to do. Keep it's people safe.

Lone terrorists who are from the Uk and not a government force are harder to deal with.
This is more like 9/11 than the manchter bombing.

Although the Manchester bomber had the same ideology as Hamas and would be on your side today.

Israel are coming across as absolute blood thirsty maniacs. Can they not see the damage zionism is causing. Any sympathy I've ever had for them as a country has disappeared since they elected a right wing fascist group of people into power and since they decided they could carpet bomb innocent and vulnerable people. Their elected personnel seem to be completely unhinged. Many many people is Israel are furious with this government who have caused this. Not hamas. The Israeli regime. The regime were the ones who openly funded hamas years ago. Netanyahu is a fucking criminal.

Watching this play out has caused so so much trauma. And as for the founding fathers of colonialism, imperialism (uk, us, France, Germany) and slavery wading in with their war hungry statements and bombs.... how can anyone with any degree of humanity support this ethnic cleansing in full view of the world?!

There have been people celebrating what Hamas did right now. Remember Madeline Albright? Or some people saying America deserved 9/11? Many Americans cheered bombing Iraq and all the abuses that went on. Hitting civilians has always been acceptable to some -be it governments or average people.

Hamas are so far beyond war crimes it's like nothing we've seen

Don't look up what Israel has been doing then, you'll faint with shock.

If colonialism and slavery disqualifies involvement then many of the Arab countries are out too right?

Hamas are so far beyond war crimes it's like nothing we've seen

Hamas' actions are appalling and I condemn them wholeheartedly but only someone who had ignored every single news story, every single global conflict, every genocide and every instance of covert US and UK foreign policy for the last forty years could think it was 'like nothing we've seen.' If you've never seen anything like it then you've been deliberately closing your eyes.

The Palestinains have pinned their hopes on terrorists who will attack Isreal for them but who will destroy them in the process

The Palestinians have had no hope for a long long time. It is obscene to justify what the Israeli government is doing now based on what a scared and terrorised populace 'hope' for.

It is the power imbalance that is inexcusable. Yes Hamas is a murderous, blood baying organisation that acts as ISIS did and doesn't much care who dies. But Israel is breaking international law and using their might to kill regardless.

The Palestinians have nowhere to go, nowhere! No heads up will save them.

I am so desperately sad about it all. What Hamas did last weekend won't ever be excused, but even if they are choosing to use their own people as human shields should it be allowed? Are we to stand by and excuse it because the Palestinians believe Hamas will save them?

These people will die and there is no government out there to save them, no nation (including the Arab nations) that cares enough. So we all just watch what is basically genocide.

if there was an election in Palestine, Hamas would be the single largest party

Yes they’ve killed a lot of the opposition, Fatah.

The truth is somewhere between the two.

Hamas is fundamentally, revoltingly antisemitic. It drips from every part of their founding charter. It's not like they are even secretive about it. At the same time, while the charter refers confidently to the divine right of Islam to rule unimpeded over the entire region, it also acknowledges the right of peoples of other religions, including judaism, to live peacefully "under its unbrella".

Of course this would not mean that religions and their adherents were equal. That genuine equality seems to be a pipedream of western secular liberalism though, and far beyond the mentality of any of those involved to wrap their heads around. While any one-state solution of the kind proposed by Hamas would relegate Palestinian jews to legal dhimmi status, that ultimate aim (and their descriptions in the charter of how it's worked in the past) does indicate they would have no need or desire to perpetuate genocide against the jews under those conditions. And, it has to be said, as offensive as this enshrining of one religion over others in the fabric of a nation's identity seems to us, it's no worse than the Zionist myth entitling Israel to do exactly the same thing.

I can't see how a one state solution can ever work. At least not until, maybe hundreds of years in the future if ever, both sides have abandoned all traces of theocracy and embraced secularism.

You really are one of the mainstream medias dream targets aren't you.

"But Israel said...."

Are you not capable of critical thinking in any way? You just lap up what is said and won't actually think about what is being done.

And this, unfortunately, is the bottom line on a two-state solution.

The Palestinians and their supporters in the west need to shit or get off the pot. They either need to unequivocally, en masse, acknowledge Israel's right to exist (which would mean a government like Hamas could NEVER be elected), or quit the charade that they're trying to negotiate toward that end.

I think its pretty straightforward, the IDF is going to bomb the shit out of and then launch a ground invasion of northern Gaza by the looks of it. They are telling civilians to get out if the way.

Hamas would like them to stay right where they are because they happily use Gazans as cannon fodder.

What would you quibble with there?

I'd quibble with the notion that the IDF are giving the people a genuine chance to get out.

What would you quibble with there?

@Noicant where do you suggest they go?

So the Israeli army has attacked one of the routes civilians are taking to flee. Reports of 40 killed and 150 injured in this airstrike.

So I think we can safely say that we are watching a genocide in real time.

We are.

Bit more of a chance than Hamas don’t you think, the bastards are telling them to stay in their homes. They need to go while they still can. You don’t have to believe Israel is justified to be disgusted with Hamas. Hamas govern Gaza, the wellbeing of Gazans is their responsibility, they need to be helping civilians get out of the way not hiding behind them.

They were told to move south towards Egypt.

Can you direct me to the news report? That’s appalling if thats whats happened.

It is upsetting that you are so disingenuous to imagine that can happen.

No, the chance that they are giving them is negligible, it's for show.

Where do you think they should go? And how should they get there?

Like nothing we've ever seen in Isreal and Palestine.

You aer right we've seen similar levels of evil from Boko Horam, In Rwnada and and from Isis and other exampes of utter inhumanity.

Never, ever in any of those cases did I hear anyoen say yes it's bad but...

Hamas brought this on their own people when they decided to kill civilians including children and took hostages.

There is no way that Israel would now negotiate with Hamas after that and can you really blame them? Their only option is to destroy that terrorist group once and for all.

I am not being disingenuous, I’m saying if Egypt won’t open it’s border and Hamas don’t care if you die then you take whatever option is available. I absolutely believe the IDF is planning to eradicate Hamas, I also believe they are no longer fussed about civilian casualties but if there is a chance for civilians that chance should be taken.

They have been told to go south, Hamas could be helping them to move instead of telling them to stay in their homes. They want them to die there, they want the propaganda victory. They want those civilians to blend in with during a ground invasion.

Egypt is working on aid going across the border, they could be a hell of a lot closer to that aid but they won’t be is they listen to bloody hamas and stay.