To think it’s turning into genocide in real time

[Everythingnotsavedwillbelost73]

Just seen this on the news- how can this be right? It genuinely is starting to feel like genocide.

What Hamas did was beyond appalling. But this is also beyond appalling too. Its trying to wipe Gaza off the map. Over 500 kids have already died. Human rights watch have verified that Israel uses white phosphorus against Gaza, which is a war crime.

And everyone is just watching it happen.

“The Israeli army has just ordered the entire civilian population of Gaza to evacuate south within 24 hours. The UN says that amounts to 1.1 million people& applies to 100s of 1000s sheltered in UN buildings & their staff. This is impossible without “devastating human consequences”
Leaving aside the international law implications, I cannot emphasise enough how impossible this kind of movement of people would be. I have spent a lot of time in Gaza it is one of the most densely populated places on earth, there are pretty much only 2 roads south - along the coast and down the centre - they aren’t wide or well paved. I spoke to the gaza health ministry yesterday who said every hospital was overflowing. How would the wounded and elderly be transported? There is a massive fuel shortage how would vehicles drive? There would be no where for 1.1 million to go even if they got there. Rafah crossing to Egypt is not operational because of Israeli airstrikes.”

This is how Genocide is classified;
U.N. Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide:

"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

• Killing members of the group;

• Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

• Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"

The actions of both Israel & Hamas fit this description too. It’s just fucking beyond terrible. And it feels like some world leaders are just cheering from the sidelines 😪

Why should Israel not have the right to their own homeland? 20% of the population are Israeli Arabs.

A useful thread: x.com/tomaspueyo/status/1712518904616989121?s=20

My Solution; One State called Palestine where Christians, Jews and Muslims and any other religion can live peacefully together. Head of State can be either. Non Zionist of any religion obviously

And do tell how are you going to prevent Hamas from slaughtering every Jew, which is their declared aim?

Hamas hide munitionss and head quarteres under hospitals and residential blocks. They can't just move.

They need the people to remain in the blocks and the hospiatl to deter the Isreali. they tell them to stay.

Do you think there is a moral differnec between people who will fight to protect their children and people who hide behind their children to protect themselves?

@ayedin. But as they've said repeatedly, Hamas have, like the cowards they are, set up in hospitals, public buildings, citizens homes in ordinary neighbourhoods. They are using people as human shields in that context. Gaza is tightly packed. Israel aren't going in and bombing individual houses, with precision. They are demonstrably flattening the lot in order to wipe out whatever individual pockets of Hammas they think are there.
It's not strategic destruction of individual targets. They don't even have that information surely? If they did have that level of intelligence then how would last weekend have been able to happen at all?

That's nice, alling for the eradication of the Jewish state days after the worst atrocity against the Jews since the holocaust.

Antisemitism is fully back. If it ever went away.

But did Hamas exist before the Zionist State?

Something to consider with the hint that things don't come out of the blue; actions (zionism) has consequences.

Hamas have committed atrocities but compared to the level Israel has done Israel has done WAY WORSE and for longer!

hamas is a result of Israel stealing land and pushing Palestinians into a concentration camp!

if someone is going to steal your home and kill your children then most likely you will be radicalised!

but that word is usually used to describe brown people, never whites for some reason.

it’s crazy how people think hamas just randomly started attacking

these things are always a result of something!

Israel must stop starving children and bombing Palestinians who have no where to go!

Zionism is Nazism and what Israel is doing is Genocide.

That is really bloody offensive.

Watching Al Jazera now, thousands are leaving northern Gaza as advised.

Israeli spokesman has declared Israels intentions to destroy Hamas infrastructure, HQ and buildings in northern Gaza.

Hamas statement tells people to stay in their homes in northern Gaza as the rumours of an Israeli action to come are not true...........

Which of these is trying to minimise civilian casualties?

I stand for the Jews to have their own state but the constant killing and displacement of Palestinians is genocide.

Isreal is Playing The Victim.

Zionism is Nazism.

Please, anyone reading this thread understand what is being said here.

We have real evil in our midst and the Jews are being blamed.

Jews are havig atroccites commited against them and they are being blamed.

The people commting evil barbaric acts against Jews are being 'understood'.

Please, if you've ever wonedrde how the world allowed the holocaust to happen, this is it.

I've been very critcial of Isreal in the past, I have along close history with Palestine, I genuinely weep for them.

But right now, at this specifc point, Hamas are an evil Isis death Cult and Isreal has to destroy it.

Using the holocaust as a way to deflect criticism of Israel is dangerous.

jews deserve to be safe and ordinary Jews have nothing to do with the Israeli government!

It is a fact that Israelis are oppressing the Palestinians!

Start a new thread. It's still going and people are still keeping up with the news! There was a big Russian offensive (well, kind of) a few days ago. Early reports say as many as 900 Russians dead.

Exactly.

I grew up reading the stories of holocaust and as a young teenager cried myself to sleep many times. I have always supported the state of Israel and a homeland for Jews. But now as I grow older and many bomb strikes later look at the suffering of people in gaza I think if having a homeland for one section of people means making another section of people homeless and oppressed how do you decide which section is more worthy?

If Israel bombings wipe out half of Gaza population then will the next few generations the world support a Palestine homeland or they will just be forgotten?

My religion doesn't have a homeland.

Is educating people and tackling discrimination not better than creating a homeland where people are supposed to go if the rest of the world discriminates against them?

Regardless of the size of Israel if all Jews have a right to return does it not mean that it will eventually run out of space? What will happen after that?

How is it not unfair to evict Palestinian people from their homes and build settlements? How does the conscience of Israeli settlers allow them to go and live in such a settlement when they know a Palestinian family had to be made homeless for them to have a home?

Where has that been posted?

If you mean my contention that the Israeli bombing of Gaza is NOT a Genocide I stand by it.
I haven't referenced the Holocaust!

This is not a Genocide because the aim is not the death of every Gaza inhabitant.
You don't commit Genocide by giving people 24 hours to get away from the target.
Many civilians will be killed caught in the crossfire of 2 opposing forces. As usual. Since time immemorial.

This action is a response to Hamas terrorism from their base in Gaza. Hamas have made Gaza a legitimate target.

If Hamas hadn't committed the atrocities would Israel be bombing Gaza now?

Judaism is not Zionism.

@MalagaNights
"But right now, at this specifc point, Hamas are an evil Isis death Cult and Isreal has to destroy it."

I have seen many people supporting strikes says this but if you really believe in this please also have the moral courage to complete the statement. This is what it really means because there is no avoiding this eventuality.

"But right now, at this specifc point, Hamas are an evil Isis death Cult and Isreal has to destroy it regardless of how many children, unborn babies, pregnant women die"

There have been enough posts on MN on the various threads about this to see that plenty of apparently ordinary people don’t believe Israel has a right to exist. For lots of posters ‘supporting Palestine’ = the eradication of the state of Israel.

Gardenowl

No need to state the obvious. In all legitimate military actions innocent men, women and children are killed.

Such is the nature of wars. It only stops when people are sick of the slaughter.

There can be an argument whether Israeli bombing of Gaza is a legitimate military action.
Has UN declared it not legitimate?

If you want the statement competed it's this:

"But right now, at this specifc point, Hamas are an evil Isis death Cult and Isreal has to destroy it, many children, babies and pregnant women will die, and thier blood is on the hands of Hamas who wanted this. It's an absolute tragedy"

@piscofrisco

It is strategic destruction of a target - a network of tunnels. Warfare now includes these kinds of targets ( underneath buildings and in civilian areas) because they now exist and are used.

The Hamas tunnel network in Gaza has been reported on prior to this incident. It is reported as existing and widespread. The existence of it has been reported on as an ongoing threat to Israel in the first instance. This is ‘intelligence’ or information. BBC

Therefore based on this intelligence or information M the Israeli govt intention is to bomb to destroy the tunnels and underground networks - because they exist and are a threat, and so that Hamas cannot use them anymore. This is their ‘strategy’ or plan of action. BBC

Israel have said they are going to bomb a specific area to destroy the tunnels and underground networks. This is an area where the tunnels and underground networks are - the Hamas infrastructure and resources. This is Israel’s strategy or plan of action (like bombing a bridge -stopping movement, communication and transport). Immobilising. BBC

There is a risk to civilians due to the planned bombing because there are buildings on top of the tunnels and underground networks. It’s is also a densely populated area so there’s likely to be civilian casualties - hence the call from Israel govt for civilians to evacuate. BBC.

It is reported Israel are coordinating land army also.
It looks like the bombing will happen first as part of a wider strategy.

It is reported there are also diplomatic efforts by other countries going on - talking to both Israel govt and Hamas- and there are resources being sent to the area by other countries including the UK to stabilise the region.

Isreal is Zionism and you have suggsted it shouldn't exist. Like Hamas do.

@Dalekjastninerels you've had multiple posts deleted because of your antisemitism, does that not give you pause for thought?

You are not being unreasonable- it's vile & the islamophobia and support for the war crimes and atrocities being carried out by Israel is monstrous.

But you won't get much support on here. There is a very vocal amount of Israel apologists for genocide on here who are more interested in talking about posters being torn down thab the slow murder of Palestinian babies in incubators by the elected Israeli government & condoned by Tories and labour

It's horrific