To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

Please clarify what you mean by this?

Are you suggesting that Israel should open the borders with terrorists and let Hamas flood into Israel? Leave innocent Israeli citizens to the kind of treatment that happened on Saturday? Cause that's what it sounds like.

If that's not what you mean can you please explain.

I am hardening my heart against this. Somebody is just on TV now going on about denying people electricity and food. People have been denied a lot worse. A mother of a new born baby her husband killed. The point is both sides have to obey the rules of war. It can't just be one sided.

@ArtyStripedSocks I don’t think there are any options for the Gazans. I doubt Egypt will open the borders or set up refugee camps as they won’t risk it being exploited and infiltrated by Hamas. They are already struggling with the militant groups they already have. It’s not that long since the Arab Spring.

You do know denying people electricity and power also means their hospitals where they are trying to treat their sick and dying? I was listening to Irish radio yesterday and they were interviewing a medicine sans frontier doctor in a hospital in Gaza and the situation is dire they are fast running out of supplies and power so people are dying, the desperation and fear in her voice was hard to listen to

By a terrorist group - not the civilians of Gaza.

YABU to dictate to people what they can and can't discuss on an open forum such as this.

Oh - and Hamas have?

"Whataboutery" is a pointless exercise in rhetoric that can only be enjoyed when sitting happily nowhere near the conflict. It is beyond tragic that innocent people are being killed and maimed in this war. It doesn't matter what "label" they wear. Every death in war is a testament to failure on everyone's part. But I don't think the UK (or many places) are sitting in a comfortable position when they set out to lecture others about "social and political hatred, killing, and contempt for "others"." We don't have the "excuse" of war - or at least not normally. But there is enough social and political hatred and contempt for others of MN, never mind in our society. And I would be interested, for example, if the UK will be opening its borders to Gazan refugees - or will it be sending anyone who arrives to Rwanda? I'm just recalling all those thread on MN alone about how we don't want all those "men from uneducated barbaric societies where women have no value on our lauded shores". Just because hatred and contempt is a spectrum does not mean that we have the corner on moral outrage - our "armed wing" did some bloodly questionable things in Afghanistan and Syria and not so long ago. We have done some bloody questionable things throughout history. As has just about everyone else. This is not a competition.

Trading "whataboutery" on MN is the "civilised" exchange of rockets. We aren't living it, so it is turned into entertainment, trading stories of horror and excuses on which ever side we are on. From our glass houses....

@Dulra my point is that it is not up to Israel to provide the other options.

The whole situation is horrific and no doubt Israel's actions will be horrifying. However, the attacks by Hamas are not Israel's doing, and Israel will react to them, as Hamas knew full well when they committed these barbaric disgusting acts of terrorism against innocent Israeli citizens.

Netenyahu has openly admitting providing funding to Hamas and propping up Hamas to allow cause for Israel to further incur into Gaza.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Evidence coming out now that Israel was warned ahead of this incursion by Egyptian intelligence and that Israel chose to ignore it. Again allowing all this to blow up.

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67082047

@ArtyStripedSocks Not up to them provide options? That's very cold. As I said Israel have a right to defend their borders but their response will go way beyond that and completely obliterate Gaza. They tell civilians to leave and then bomb their only border crossing. Israel have no intention of trying to protect the lives of innocent civilians and to me that is murder

Agree a two state solution. Set up borders like every other country in the world for entry and exit. Lift the blockade to allow them to trade as their own independent country.

'THanKs To sOcIAl mEDia iN rEcENt yEaRS 🤪' tells you everything you need to know

We’ll all be visiting a museum in Gaza in future years, believe me.

It's not possible to get everyone out of Gaza away from Hamas, so it's in the interests of all Palestinians and Israelis that Hamas is defeated. Remember, they use Palestinian civilians as human so Hamas absolutely do NOT want a fair fight or to allow civilians to leave.

Your missing the point. Israel illegally occupies Palestine. Therefore it absolutely IS ISRAELS responsibility to provide options, if Palestine was an independent country, then your argument would make sense, but its not, its an occupied territory controlled completely by israel.

There's a whole difference between defence and retaliation though. Surely the bigger question is why it was allowed to happen in the first place? Why help took hours to arrive and one of the most sophisticated armies on the planet took hours to respond to the invasion. How could such a sophisticated military capability not have seen this coming? If I were cynical I might wonder if they let it happen as a means to an end to justify what we are now witnessing. Are we to believe a government with access to such sophisticated defences have such pitiful intelligence and such a poor ability to respond to an attack? This wasn't just about a failure of the Iron Dome. This was a failure of government. It just is not feasible that they did not know this was coming or that it should take hours for help to arrive if there was an invasion with this sort of military capability supplied by superpowers. If it is then god help us all.

This is a shithole

Nothing exists out of the blue; that is the problem everyone needs to realise this and come up with a solution.

As far as war goes I am 100 percent neutral; I follow as far as I can the teachings of Our Lord Jesus.

I think founding the Zionist State of Israel was a huge mistake; Israel is Spiritual.

The ones trapped in the shithole are Israeli Civilians and the Palestinians

They can’t negotiate with Hamas, it’s literally in Hamas founding statement. they are islamists who are absolutely clear that there should be no non-muslims in Palestine.

https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/880818a.htm

Hamas will not accept a 2 state solution, I’m not sure Netanyahu is bothered either tbh.

Israel has just suffered from a massive terrorist attack, I think most normal people would like to see a 2 state solution but thats not going to be on the horizon right now.

I’m still holding out hope for some sort of safe enclave for Palestinian women and children but the Egyptians have been clear they won’t be taking Palestinian refugees. The best option is safe zones near the Egyptian border for vulnerable populations.

There is a lot of support for Jews all over the world at this horrendous time. To say “the world” is chanting something so horrific is just sensationalist and undermines the effort of the vast majority of people showing support, fighting and challenging anti- jewish sentiments

It doesn’t occupy Gaza they are self administered and what can anyone do if they spend all their money on weapons instead of food, medicine and education .

Unless you mean Jewish people in Israel full stop. I’m never sure anymore if by occupation posters mean Israelis should stick to their own borders or if they should be ejected completely. Becasue when Hamas say occupation they are talking about the existence of any Jews in Israel full stop.

Hamas won't accept a two state solution OP. Hamas are the government of Gaza, so if they won't accept it it won't happen. It's like you're entirely unaware of the long long history of negotiations to try to achieve peace in this region.

It's simply not true to say that all borders between all countries are open for people to cross! Try crossing the Lebanon/ Israel border. Lebanon does not allow it.

Israel has an absolute right to control its own borders and say who goes in or out.

One that confirms to international law?
Yes, the Hammas attack was absolutely awful, I’m not excusing it in any way, but breaking the laws back isn’t the answer.

Two independent states, where if a Palestinian or a jew wanted to settle on either side they would have to conform to the laws of the land just like anyone else who emigrates. At the monent it is an apartheid regime where palestinians are second class citizens.

gaza has been under a blockade for decades, they are not free. Lift the blockade, give them freedom….

It's not Egypt's responsibility to accept Gazan's. It's Israel's responsibility to stop fucking oppressing. Jews are standing up to this oppression and have been since this conflict hence Neyanyahu has been squashed in the corner in the last few weeks losing trust in competency and unjust treatment of the Palestinians, who the fuck are a couple of mumsnetters who get their fabricated facts from the DM to tell us the narrative otherwise when we have first handed accounts of the conflict out in the open.

The first day of this despicable attack on the Israeli's, a brave Israeli Journalist in Israel puts this headline "This is on you Netanyahu".

If you want peace, you accept Palestine as a separate state and remove your bloodied fingers and stop illegally occupying them and enslaving them to you. They have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide and enslaved to live in a calorie controlled open air prison against US supplied hi tech weapons that are paid by some of your taxes.

Hamas did not come out of nowhere; either did Zionism.

Zionism came out of Nazism

Hamas came out of Zionism

Jews were in the Warsaw Ghetto

Palestinians are in The Gaza Strip

I just feel hopeless how the world is going