To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

The language and glorification of violence from all quarters is horrifying. Most of the people who will die will just be ordinary people trying to survive in extremely challenging circumstances.

Why are none of the major political players arguing for de-escalation? An escalation will only result in more innocent people on both sides dying. There is no good outcome here.

punishing the entire population of Gaza because few odd people committed an act of terrorism

What’s happening in Israel and Gaza is terrible. But it’s not just “a few odd people”. Hamas is the Gazan government - they were voted in by the people. They are deeply corrupt thugs and extremists who deliberately harm the ordinary people - and of course they don’t want to give up power to have a normal democratic state, because of course they wouldn’t be in charge then. They orchestrate these attacks to keep the Gazans exactly where they are. It’s a huge mistake to think of them as a few isolated “odd people” or as freedom fighters for the oppressed.

YABU to start yet another thread on this.

I am horrified at the actions by both sides, and at the innocent suffering on both sides. It is my suspicion that Hamas leaders don't give a flying fuck about the suffering of their own people, but wanted to precipitate reaction from Israel, so that they could then point to the suffering of the Palestinian civilians.

There were 'voted' in almost 20 years ago. Most of the Gazans alive now didn't vote them in.

Stop trying to victim blame the Gazans.

This is the equivalent of Ireland bombing Northern Ireland cities/UK bombing Ireland every time there was a bomb attack by the IRA.

It's utterly unjustifyable, cruel and criminal.

But it's Israel, so they'll get away with murder. Literally.

I can’t imagine being happy that my country would provide food, power, water etc to the people who had, say, brutally murdered my child.

also, how much of the reason why Israel has to provide these things to Gaza is because Hamas deliberately do not? For example, the EU funded the purchase of water pipes, Hamas boasted that it could use them for rockets. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/10/10/eu-funded-water-pipelines-hamas-rockets/#:~:text=EU%20steadily%20increased%20pipelines%20aid&text=In%202021%2C%20publicly%2Davailable%20information,be%20built%20using%20EU%20funds.

in WWII Britain bombed German cities, we did all we could to cut supply lines, why should Israel do any different.

This makes no sense whatsoever. And I'm from Northern Ireland. Had family members blown up by the IRA too, so I kinda know a fair bit about it.

By the way, how do you think Israel should best respond to being attacked like this? Where their babies are decapitated...
Read that again.

Their women raped and abducted, children taken as hostages and whole families have been burnt to death? ALL civilians... the sheer terrorising of civilians.
What more could Hamas have done to provoke Israel to attempt to wipe them out once and for all? If they had actually videoed the murdering of the babies would that have been enough for you? Because it doesn't seem to be enough just to know it happened... or when they tore the fetus from the mother's womb and left them both to die- would that have been enough in your book? or is there still some further novel barbaric act that they could have done that they maybe haven't tried out yet?

The families living in apartments in Gaza didn't commit these atrocities

Personally I don't think it ok to go into a country and gun down 250 unarmed fleeing young people, and go door to door butchering entire families including decapitating children.
And if you've done that then you have to know the response will be swift and massive.

I am not political and I don't condone what Hamas has done but it doesn't surprise me. The Israelies have been taking their land/resouces for years and the Palestinians have been knocking on all doors asking for help and have been largely ignored. The UK is largely responsible for this. I am horrified at the loss of life on all sides and fear we are witnessing genocide. International governments should pushing for de-escalation and I am horrified at the rhetoric.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-10-12/ty-article-opinion/.premium/the-reckoning-must-be-with-hamas-not-with-all-gazans/0000018b-2020-d53b-af8b-737c1b7a0000?gift=86ed2509082646a5badbf11805a28f73

It is unreasonable to expect Israel not to take action to the horrific terrorist attack that has has taken place.
One positive of this is that everyone is talking about the region actively but this talk is not always solution focused, talks sometimes show their hate through antisemitic comments which helps no one.
Protests which support Palestines right to exist alongside antisemitic chants do not help Palestines cause.
Posts like OP which criticise Israel do not in the same post have criticism of Hamas and their actions in how money is used, how weapons are hidden near vital infrastructure, how tunnels are dug under vital infrastructure etc. Egypt will not open the border, Syria has links to Hamas, Iran chooses to focus on their hatred of Israel rather than their love of their fellow Muslims by spending money on war rather than say healthcare or education of young people in the region, many of the Muslim countries in the region simply do not care enough about the Palestinians to actively put pressure on western countries for more active diplomatic solutions to the situation. We need to criticise more of these points than Israel’s right to govern itself. Reports state where they are able to warnings are given so people can evacuate buildings. Cutting off water and electricity is obviously going to cause problems for citizens of Gaza, long term it will breed hate by the young Gazaians which doesn’t help the peace process but Israel has to do something.
Every innocent life lost is one too many and I truly hope there will be some move towards peace but there is not enough strong positive leadership in either side for their to happen in our lifetime.

@Statice White phosphorous, damage not precision, indiscriminate bombing - that article is horrific. There is no regard for civilian life whatsoever.

Yes, I did mean Hamas. Sorry that wasn't clear.

My point is that we can't have a war on just Hamas. They're hiding among Palestinians, using them as human shields. They know exactly what they're doing - they've been doing it for decades, it's all very well-rehearsed.

I don't want war. I desperately want peace. But with Hamas still at large, any peace is just temporary. They spend peace stocking up on ammunition until they're able to attack again. So we need to now stop them, once and for all, from being able to rebuild.

There are no neutral third parties. Egypt isn't neutral - they're only interested in not inheriting the refugees as they also don't want Hamas, masquerading as innocent civilians, to cross their borders. This is what's happened previously.

Honestly, I'm heartbroken. So much death, yet the world is shouting "gas the Jews!".

Almost half the civilians living in Gaza are children.

I am so deeply sad to my very core at the constant attempts to justify violence towards innocent people on both sides. "What do people expect?"/ "But they did XYZ". No. The military committed those atrocities. Or the government. Or terrorists. The children and babies on both sides did absolutely nothing and there is no possible justification for the violence being inflicted on any of them by either side, try as people might.

Reacting to the horror with more violence is so wrong. It’s happened since ancient times and just leads to more war and death forever onwards . If only they could have stepped back and not done this.

Good piece on women’s hour from peace activists on both sides who had both lost a child. They need to be in charge.

Starve 2 Million people, tell them to escape whilst bombing their only escape route, and simultaneously denounce anyone that even thinks you’re not the biggest and only victim in all this.

Yes, that would be proportionate.

Forgive me if this is ignorant but what on earth did Hamas think the response from Israel was going to be? Surely they knew they would unleash horror

I suspect hamas knew but the majority of people living in Gaza are probably not Hamas and don't seem to have much control of anything

Honestly, I'm heartbroken. So much death, yet the world is shouting "gas the Jews!".

'The world' is shouting gas the Jews? Have you got evidence of this? What world leaders are doing this? What countries are behind this? What is your definition of 'the world' here?

Following for now.

Did you ever stop and think before typing that post that perhaps the PP meant it metaphorically and not literally?

‘dO YoU HaVE eViDeNCe Of ThIS’ 🙄

Yeah, the quoted in bold PP clearly meant privsteprivate citizens at pro-Palestinian protests in New York, London and even Sydney were shouting "Gas the Jews!".

They definitely didn't meant the whole literal world, imo.

When Hamas were formed in 1987, they had minimal support from Palestinians. But in 2021, support for Hamas dramatically increased as AP News reported:

apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

In 2022, respected Palestinian pollster Khalil Shikaki and his Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) carried out a survey looking at Palestinian support for armed groups. Main takeaways below:

• 72% of Palestinians support forming more armed groups in West Bank

• in Gaza, 84% of respondents supported concept of armed groups taking NO orders from the Palestinian Authority. This is HIGHER than in the West Bank where 65% supported the idea.

www.pcpsr.org/en/node/924

So, the support for Hamas, Lion's Den and other Palestinian armed groups is there from the Palestinian population. A minority do not support them.

At the same time, Palestinian support for the Fatah party led by President Abbas in the West Bank has collapsed to as low as 14%. Abbas is struggling to keep control of the Palestinian Authority territory in the face of support for armed groups such as Hamas.

Important to note that Abbas' Fatah party also has an armed wing - Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. So, there is a LOT of Palestinian support for terrorist groups overall.

So, not all Palestinians support Hamas. But it is NOT wrong to say that Hamas have the majority Palestinian support. That may or may not change in future.