To think its not okay to great gazans as israel has been

[LethargicButAwesome]

Gaza has no food, no electricity and no water. On top of that they are being bombarded constantly
Israel has bombed the only escape route for refugees via Egypt, there is no way out
israel continues the blockage by air, land and sea - no aid can get in, no one can get out.
israel has said they will obliterate Gaza.

this is unprecedented, no matter what happens with governments or wars, you have refugee camps…safe havens…(often difficult) access to water - how are we even debating that this is acceptable? Am i the only person thinking this is the human race at its absolute worst? Its heartbreaking to watch, literally noone is doing anything - we are observing a genocide.

Obviously I meant the people all over the world attending rallies and shouting "kill the Jews! Gas the Jews!". I obviously didn't mean that every single person in the world is saying it. I honestly would've thought it was pretty clear that's what I meant but I guess it wasn't. Sorry about that!

I see so many people saying "I don't know what the answer is but it's definitely not killing 1 million children". No one knows what the answer is. That's the problem. There are tunnels all over the Gaza Strip that have been used to smuggle weapons, rockets and hostages. They're underneath residential blocks. The residents are being used as literal shields for terrorists.

I don't want 1 million children to die. I don't even want 1 child to die. Or 1 man, or woman. I really, truly don't. I suspect that's why Israel is hoping for a ground offensive as then they're more in control of what's going on. They'll be shooting at people who are shooting at them. But I know innocent people will die regardless, and it breaks my heart.

Israel is damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they do, Palestinians die. If they don't, Israelis die. There is no winning.

It seems that Israel has chosen to learn absolutely fuck all about social and political hatred, killing, and contempt for "others". About each persons right to life.

I would hope for a humanitarian corridor to be opened one way to Egypt. I think the reason for the total seige is they don’t want hamas fighters disappearing into Egypt and I imagine Egypt doesn’t want them there either (Palestinians don’t have a great history in the area tbh, the PLO tried to assassinate the king of Jordan, got involved in the Lebanese civil war, and groups have alleged to have helped Iraqi invasion forces in Kuwait during the gulf war).

moving goods into Gaza allows for the possibility of arms or materials that can be used for the manufacture of weapons.

I think people have to understand the number of attacks Hamas has launched against Israel over the decades. I think the Israelis are calculating that this is the only way to obliterate Hamas. At the very least though I would hope Egypt would take women, children and the elderly. They really do need to have a safe enclave. The problem is you literally cannot shelter in a hospital or school because hamas uses those sites for operations and weapons storage.

There does need to be a humanitarian corridor now and the Israelis and the Egyptians have to make it happen otherwise the cost in lives will be tragic. At the very least a safe zones on the gaza side administer by the Egyptian army for the people least likely to be combatants. If you can get kids in there as well you reduce the likelihood of the use of child soldiers.

So you think this is acceptable?

Any thoughts on why Palestinians aren't even been allowed to flee safely?

Exactly what @asterel wrote. Just how would you ensure that only the innocent were allowed to leave? It’s an appalling situation but with over 70% of Gaza residents apparently supporting Hamas there’s little chance of peace happening any time soon.

I feel desperately sad for the suffering of innocents in Gaza and wish Israel hadn't responded to the terrorist atrocities in the exact way that those terrorists intended and hoped for.

I'm hoping that the US diplomat who has just flown into Israel can persuade Netanyahu to stand down and think of a better way to defeat Hamas without losing the moral high ground by killing civilians.

Because members of Hamas don’t carry ID cards?

I don’t say that flippantly. I can’t watch the news at the moment because it’s all so awful.

Perhaps they should lift the blockade and give them freedom? Then they would not be their responsibility.

Anti-Semitism in this thread is unbelievable. Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not Jewish and still feel the Anti-Semitism.
All the sermons on how Israel should be restrained is very rich coming from the British public given the history that the very parliamentarians British public voted in, went gallivanting into Iraq and bombed the living lights out of the general public for terrorism that happened in another country and for supposed weapons of mass destruction. If you weren't restrained in your approach then for what happened to you, you don't get to lecture a nation whose babies have been beheaded, women and children have been taken as hostages, raped, murdered and paraded naked and not necessarily in that order.

Do you have any idea what would happen if the blockade was lifted? Hamas want the destruction of Israel and Jews to leave or die. This is not a reasonable view and it is the view of the government of Gaza.

Perhaps Egypt rather than Israel should open its borders to Hamas to come and go freely.

So the response is kill everyone? Im not sure the 1m children know how / what to support. If i was being bombed constantly, was always hungry and been dealt blow after blow by an apartheid nation - you don't know any different but to support the only people who are defending you. Gaza is an open air prison this wasnt just an isolated attack its been decades of oppresion building up, hamas fighters were born and grew up being priosoners they have never known freedom… the answer is not to obliterate Gaza the ANSWER is give the palestinians the freedom they have been campaigning for, freedom to live in their own country.

Because this makes sense.

The equivalent of someone takes over your home, locks you in the store cupboard and says well maybe the neighbours should take you in.

so much hate and ignorance.

Criticising the actions of the state of Israel is not anti-semetic.

Perhaps they should lift the blockade and give them freedom? Then they would not be their responsibility.

Unfortunately you've seen the results of Hamas getting through the border blockade.

In the first instance the hostages need to be returned as Israel have stated they will resume the water and power supplies once this has happened.

I don't know what the answer is. Hamas needs to be gotten rid of, that much is clear, or there can't be any peaceful solution, and I don't think Netanyahu is particularly useful there either.

The problem is this wasn't just an attack by a gang of terrorists, this was literally the ruling party of Gaza who launched a brutal mass attack on civilians of a neighbouring state, knowing full well the absolute catastrophe it would being down on the heads of its population.

You can also understand why many countries in the EU wished to stop aid given that this was an attack by the ruling party.

The deaths of civilians in Gaza is horrible. The whole thing is a mess.

@ArtyStripedSocks Because Egypt have enough on their plate with Islamic State and Sinai Province and don’t want to add Hamas to the mix. Honestly! Why did you think they would want Hamas there?

@LethargicButAwesome this situation is complicated, but your understanding of it demonstrates that you only understand one side of the argument. This is a good-faith suggestion and not a snark or dig, but you should try to engage with and understand the other sides argument and perspective.
I suggest Bari Weiss, The Free Press, Spiked and Brendan O'Neill, and Daniel Finkelstein. I'm sure others have suggestions too; I am in the early days of my learning.

I also listened to Andrew Gold podcast the other day and was very moved by his description of why Israel is crucial to Jews.

This. In 2006 Palestinians voted in Hamas knowing what they were. They had massive support from ordinary civilians and higher still support from Palestinians living in Gaza. They also hide among civilians in schools and Paeztinian.civilians are complicit in this, while they are still firing rockets at Israel ATM. Israel has every right to defend itself against Hamas who have taken hostages of ordinary Israeli civilians. It is inevitable that Palestinian civilians get hurt or killed whilst Hamas hide among them.

Yeah I did. And I think that between the horrific actions of Hamas and the attempted genocide of Israel there is enough shit going on without people making stuff up..

@Littlegoth my point is that Israel would be crazy to open their borders, and there are other options for the Gazans.
The situation is awful, but Israel must protect its borders if it wants to survive.

I don't think they will be able to get rid of hamas. Bombing the the crap out of gaza and starving them will turn civilians more militant and move them towards hamas.

I don't know the answer

I think most people are in the middle and want an end to it all. But the loudest voices on social media are both extremes. It was the same during the pandemic. So hard to get moderate voices heard.

I don’t like the victim-blaming of ordinary Palestinians. People keep saying they voted for Hamas so it is up to them to get rid of them now. The ‘election’ of these corrupt murderers was years ago. My vote in a democratic western country can’t get rid of the Tories, so I am not sure what power the average Palestinian has. I feel panicky for these Palestinians right now. In a living hell trying to get water, food and medicine for their families. Imagine the trauma. I am more than ok with every disgusting member of Hamas losing their life. But at what cost to the Palestinian children?

And then I am also trying not to think of what many innocent Israeli families are going through right now. The ones whose relatives were taken hostage must be in hell. Each second of their day must be agony. That dad losing his wife and girls as hostages breaks my heart. I find myself having crazy thoughts like the families whose relatives were killed by Hamas are ‘luckier’ than the ones whose relatives might be suffering torture at the hands of the evil creatures of Hamas at this very moment; how f*ed up is that thought?? My Israeli friends are beside themselves with family members being called up and even volunteering to do so. What can I say to reassure them??

Someone needs to stop this bloodshed somehow. I have a horrid feeling that the people who can act don’t even want this war to stop. Because on both sides, their own egos, pride and hatred means more to them than their own innocent people. I truly believe that.

Hamas cannot simultaneously be a terrorist organization and an elected government. The two are incompatible. Hamas were "elected" in 2006. Median age in Gaza is 18. Do the maths.

What are the other options for Gazans?

Israel has every right to defend its borders but it doesn't have the right to obliterate another nation which it is likely to do