To be against the attacks on Palestine

[Threemangoes]

What happened in Israel was horrific by Hamas. But why are Palestinians being restricted, bombed, dehydrated and deprived of basic needs because of terrorists? Why is the world supporting Israel commiting war crimes?

Hamas are sick fucks to kill innocents. But it's like history repeating again. 9/11 caused millions of Iraqis killed for what?

Have we learned nothing from the past???

There are people underneath this rubble. People dying with no one to help them. Pregnant women, babies, children. All terrified and no help of rescue of even their bodies being found. Just swept away like vermin. Human souls, gone.

Go onto YouTube and watch videos of the utter carnage. Never seen anything like it.

I can't believe how people like yourself are so naive to think the IDF do not commit war crimes and target civilians

BBC REPORT
How we verified video of strike on fleeing PalestiniansWe've been reporting that at least 12 people, including young children, have been killed in a strike on a Palestinian convoy fleeing northern Gaza via a designated evacuation route.
We were able to do this because of video footage from the aftermath of the strike, which we verified the location of.
Understanding when and where a piece of video was filmed is key part of understanding major developments in conflicts like this.
At BBC Verify we analysed two videos of the strike on a convoy of vehicles heading towards southern Gaza. The videos are highly disturbing, with images of numerous dead bodies - including young children - that are far too graphic to show.
However, they also offer details as to the location of the incident.
We knew that the 45-km Salah al-Deen road, which runs north to south across Gaza, is being used as one of the main evacuation routes. Local reports also suggested the strike had occurred on this road.
The footage shows a central reservation and several buildings whose aerial profile and arrangement we were able to match to a particular section of the road.
Free-to-use online software which analyses the angle of shadows told us that the footage was shot at around 17:30 local time (13:30 GMT) - presumably shortly after the strike.

My OH just made an interesting point. If Israel drives everyone out of the north of the Gaza Strip, won't Hamas fighters also vacate the area? They're hardly going to sit around with targets on their heads. What is the end game? Is it a permanent Israeli occupation of that area?

Exactly - I imagine Hamas fighters are the people in Gaza most likely to be able to escape.
I think your last sentence hits the nail on the head - my guess is either permanent occupation or simply destroying Gaza, turning it to rubble.

It does appear to be a revenge mission. Realistically they can't defeat Hamas militarily without destroying Gaza.

I think the more senior Hamas members are sitting in Qatar drinking coffee and happily watching events unfold online. The lower unthinking Hamas members will be killed fighting for their cause. Hamas will just regroup in the West Bank next. What I can't figure out is why they'd want to destroy themselves, because the area will end up Palestinian free before very long. What's their long game? Are they even being paid to do this? They knew what the outcome would be of their attacks last week. What are they doing?

Are you sure Hamas will stand their ground, though? They will know that they'd be overwhelmed.

No idea what Hamas hoped to achieve by what they did - they obviously can't defeat Israel by force of arms. More likely they were hoping to drag other countries or guerrilla groups into the conflict on their side. They would have known Israel would hit back very, very hard.

I just can't imagine what they're even thinking by doing this unless they're being pawned by others. Surely they can't be doing that. I just don't know. It's literally unbelievable what is happening.

I found this:

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/11/analysis-why-did-hamas-attack-now-and-what-is-next

Hamas’s move was triggered by three factors. First, the policies of the far-right Israeli government enabling settler violence in the occupied West Bank and Jerusalem led to a sense of desperation among Palestinians and growing demands for a reaction.[...]

Second, the Hamas leadership felt compelled to act due to the acceleration of Arab-Israeli normalisation.[...]

Third, Hamas was emboldened after it managed to repair its ties with Iran.

@NotTerfNorCis Interesting article by Sarah Helm in the Guardian. She writes that the 'Israeli right has long pressed for expelling Gaza's population into the Sinai.' So, it isn't a new idea, or arising just out of these latest events - it's been on the agenda of the right for a while.

So it's possible Hamas lashed out without considering the consequences, and Israel is now using this to obtain their own goals.

If you can show evidence that it was done deliberately then you might have a point.

If they had listened to Hamas they'd definitely be there getting bombed

It's widely recognised in the Arab world that Hamas currently have it good. They do not live with the regular Palestinian people in poverty, hardship and danger. They live in luxury complexes with giant villas with pools, western style shopping malls, luxury hotels, the best food and wine and they lavishly spread it to their friends and squirrel it offshore. Yasser Arafat diverted nearly $1 billion in public funds to himself.

This money comes from foreign aid. That aid is given so Palestinians can be looked after, and that is not what they use it for. So it is in the best interests of Hamas for this conflict to continue, to even escalate and for them to receive more and more money. No doubt after this, they will have donations from around the world which tragically will not reach the citizens.

Hamas are not Palestinians. They do not even act with Palestinians welfare in mind. They don't care how much they suffer or how many die. The more civilians Israel kill, the better for them. That is the tragic truth.

I hardly think so.

This was a planned attack on the State of Israel with known consequences and help from 'others'.

Apparently the atrocity was more than 2 years in the planning - so not impulsive in that respect

I guess it's very clear why Hamas don't want people to flee. Israel might never let them return.

@NotTerfNorCis I can't fathom why Hamas attacked so violently, but I think this has definitely opened a window for the agenda of the Israeli right to be actioned.

@Tessofthebicyles did you not read the BBC article I tagged you in?
They were bombed by the Israeli airstrikes whilst fleeing northern gaza through the designated evacuation route
They were doing what the Israeli government ordered them to do
We all condemn the actions of hamas of killing civilians but for some reason you refuse to condemn the actions of the Israeli government of killing civilians. The same civilians including women and children who were following Israeli orders. Why is that? Why is it so difficult for you to condemn the murder of Palestinian children by the Israeli government

You see this is the problem isn't it? Even leaving Hamas out of this the coloniser is asking the colonised to leave their homes. They are saying don't worry we well let you back when we have flattened it but will they? How do the colonised trust that this is true when experience tells them differently?

@Tessofthebicyles seeing as you keep asking for credible sources this is the latest horrifying update on the massacre by bbc news

Strike on civilian convoy fleeing Gaza: What the video showsWarning: This post contains details some people may find distressing.
Many people have died - at least 12 - in a strike on a civilian convoy fleeing northern Gaza along one of the evacuation routes.
As we reported earlier, we have verified footage from the aftermath of the strike - but here's more detail about what it shows.
The video is a vision of near unimaginable carnage, and sadly, just the latest of many brought about by this conflict.
It shows a group of men running towards a lorry. Some climb aboard while others film the scene.
They yell prayers and lamentations for the victims into the smoke-filled air, their voices occasionally drowned out by the howl of car alarms.
As the camera approaches the lorry, the full horror of the strike begins to emerge.
Several bodies, contorted by the force of the blast, are strewn across the flatbed. Pools of blood litter the surroundings.
As the view switches to the other side of the lorry, the body of a small child - clearly no more than four years old - shifts into view.
Other footage filmed before the strike showed that lorries similar to these were crammed with as many as 30 people journeying south, in search of safety. Some will have been thrown from the vehicle, others may have survived and left the area.
As the camera moves past the lorries we see two more battered and burning vehicles - likely with victims still inside.

Just read the Hamas charter. According to what I got out of it is that this is a plain simple religious war.

The Gaza Strip was under Egyptian military rule from 1949 to 1956 and again from 1957 to 1967.

Israel occupied Gaza in the 1967 war and stayed until 2005.

Gaza became a centre of political activism during the First Intifada, and under the Oslo Accords of 1993, it was assigned to be under the direct control of the newly established Palestinian Authority.

On September 13, 1993, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) Negotiator Mahmoud Abbas signed a Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements, commonly referred to as the “Oslo Accord,” at the White House. Israel accepted the PLO as the representative of the Palestinians, and the PLO renounced terrorism and recognized Israel’s right to exist in peace. Both sides agreed that a Palestinian Authority (PA) would be established and assume governing responsibilities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over a five-year period. Then, permanent status talks on the issues of borders, refugees, and Jerusalem would be held.

In 2005 Israel unilaterally withdrew its troops, though it retained control over its airspace, shared border and shoreline.

Gaining Gaza is of no advantage to the Israelis, they've been there before..

If you can show evidence that it was done deliberately then you might have a point.

Hamas killed innocent Israelis deliberately. Therein lies the difference.

Yasser Arafat has nothing to do with Hamas.

On the contrary his Fatah party was in direct opposition to Hamas.

Any money Arafat embezzled went to himself. And he's been dead for 20 years.