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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be against the attacks on Palestine

1000 replies

Threemangoes · 11/10/2023 13:42

What happened in Israel was horrific by Hamas. But why are Palestinians being restricted, bombed, dehydrated and deprived of basic needs because of terrorists? Why is the world supporting Israel commiting war crimes?

Hamas are sick fucks to kill innocents. But it's like history repeating again. 9/11 caused millions of Iraqis killed for what?

Have we learned nothing from the past???

OP posts:
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51
MCOut · 13/10/2023 14:58

Pollyputhekettleon · 13/10/2023 14:45

I believe the truth is important, that's why. It's important to understand Islamist terrorism.

She never implied it wasn’t, that was my point. Whenever someone says Jihadists are not Muslim it is always in the context that they are misapplying texts to justify violence and that is wrong. No one ever denies that they’re not misappropriating Islam. If she said they are not using Islamic texts you’d have a point but there’s nothing dishonest in her pointing out that they are cherry picking to justify a largely rejected set of principles.

Pollyputhekettleon · 13/10/2023 15:03

MCOut · 13/10/2023 14:58

She never implied it wasn’t, that was my point. Whenever someone says Jihadists are not Muslim it is always in the context that they are misapplying texts to justify violence and that is wrong. No one ever denies that they’re not misappropriating Islam. If she said they are not using Islamic texts you’d have a point but there’s nothing dishonest in her pointing out that they are cherry picking to justify a largely rejected set of principles.

No, she's claiming that they are literally not Muslims. That's false.

Pollyputhekettleon · 13/10/2023 15:04

Green777 · 13/10/2023 14:49

“Yes, yes, no true Scotsman. I don't argue with religious people about their religion, I have paint I'd rather watch dry.”

That.

Oh, that was intended to explain why I had no intention of continuing to discuss it with her. I should have made that clear. I make my point to them once and then I'm done.

NotTerfNorCis · 13/10/2023 15:40

1799 Palestinians killed since the weekend now.

MCOut · 13/10/2023 15:50

Pollyputhekettleon · 13/10/2023 15:03

No, she's claiming that they are literally not Muslims. That's false.

You said it was important to understand this type of terrorism. Her point shows she clearly already does. It acknowledges that they’re appropriating Islam and serves to delegitimise the jihadist terrorist narrative by attacking their justification. It is unreasonable to suggest that is immoral in anyway. Also, how are you as someone who is not a Muslim going to lecture a Muslim as to what constitutes Islam?

Jihadist: Hurting people is Islamic therefore, to be Muslim I must hurt people.
Dolphin: BS, that is incorrect, you're misappropriating Islam, you’re not a Muslim
You: don’t tell them they’re not Muslims that’s wrong.

No shade, but it just seems like a point I’d expect an uninformed child who had never heard the criticisms of jihad to make. By being so literal you achieve nothing but arguing semantics unless you are trying to suggest that all Muslims are inherently violent.

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 15:53

NotTerfNorCis · 13/10/2023 15:40

1799 Palestinians killed since the weekend now.

That's 3,099 too many together with the 1,300 Israelis Hamas killed since the weekend.

I hope there will be a swift resolution and further lives protected on all sides.

Dolphin1111111111111111111111111 · 13/10/2023 15:59

Thank you @MCOut

I admit I don't write as eloquently as @MCOut and I don't write as well as others but my words have been twisted.

I should also point out many Christians live in palestine. This is not a war about religion. This is about humanity. I was just trying to point out that hamas are terrorists who claim to be Muslim. I as Muslim are saying that you can not be a terrorist and claim to be Muslim. And you can take.as many Islamic texts out of context to claim otherwise but it doesn't work.

Pollyputhekettleon · 13/10/2023 16:41

MCOut · 13/10/2023 15:50

You said it was important to understand this type of terrorism. Her point shows she clearly already does. It acknowledges that they’re appropriating Islam and serves to delegitimise the jihadist terrorist narrative by attacking their justification. It is unreasonable to suggest that is immoral in anyway. Also, how are you as someone who is not a Muslim going to lecture a Muslim as to what constitutes Islam?

Jihadist: Hurting people is Islamic therefore, to be Muslim I must hurt people.
Dolphin: BS, that is incorrect, you're misappropriating Islam, you’re not a Muslim
You: don’t tell them they’re not Muslims that’s wrong.

No shade, but it just seems like a point I’d expect an uninformed child who had never heard the criticisms of jihad to make. By being so literal you achieve nothing but arguing semantics unless you are trying to suggest that all Muslims are inherently violent.

I'm opposed to identity politics so I'll say absolutely whatever I like about Islam. I don't defer to muslims. That's not what I meant when I said I don't argue with people about their religion. The only reason I don't do that is it's futile.

rinbaud · 13/10/2023 17:30

“One million people. No food, no water. And still they are bombing them as they leave.”

Scottish First Minister Humza Yousaf shared a video from his mother-in-law Elizabeth El-Nakla, who is a retired Scottish nurse living in Gaza.

I have a knot in my stomach that something absolutely terrible is about to begin, and it is totally what Hamas/Iran want - they want the Middle East on fire and chaos to rein.

https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1712769773283528783

https://twitter.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1712769773283528783

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 17:42

@rinbaud “One million people. No food, no water. And still they are bombing them as they leave.”

More anti-Israeli rhetoric

And whose fault is this - Hamas

rinbaud · 13/10/2023 17:54

They who wield the sword share the blame.

NotTerfNorCis · 13/10/2023 17:56

One million people. No food, no water. And still they are bombing them as they leave.

Are you denying this is factual?

Noicant · 13/10/2023 18:02

Hamas have ordered Gazans to ignore the Israeli warnings to evacuate. Just wtf, why would you do that to people.

They should be helping to move people not using them as human shields. I despair for Gazans, I had hoped that they could create a safe zone next to the Egyptian border for women and children but it’s becoming increasingly clear that would be irrelevant because Hamas is planning to use them either to discourage attacks or as propaganda. I think it was obvious what hamas does but this is utterly blatant. It’s shocking, they govern Gaza, they are responsible for them.

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 18:18

I've posted many posts in support of Israelis and Jewish people and I am appalled at the easy antisemitism that is displayed by those who are opposed to Israel and by many posters on MN.

However, Israel is making a huge mistake. It would be a lot better to utilise the atrocities Hamas committed for Israel's benefit and garner global goodwill, sympathy and support. Comms and image is so important these days. Modern Islam in that part of the world is generally quite radical and reactive, we've now seen angry radical Muslims all over the world wanting war.

The reaction to retaliate and annihilate Hamas regardless of cost of life is 100% understandable but cool heads must prevail.

I feel gutted for the Gazans who are being displaced as we speak. It is a humanitarian crisis. The Israelis will also ultimately pay the price for such an offensive. It's a lose lose situation.

If we are unlucky it could cause an international armed conflict with increased terror in Western countries. I don't know what the Gazans will do and my thought are with them this evening.

Efacsen · 13/10/2023 18:26

Hamas have ordered Gazans to ignore the Israeli warnings to evacuate. Just wtf, why would you do that to people

It's also being reported that Hamas are also blocking roads to hinder the evacuation - as if it's not hard enough

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:47

NotTerfNorCis · 13/10/2023 17:56

One million people. No food, no water. And still they are bombing them as they leave.

Are you denying this is factual?

I have no idea as I'm not there but we know the author of this information is a Palestinian sympathizer.

If they have no food and no water that is the fault of Hamas, not Israel.

iovebread · 13/10/2023 18:47

I am so devastated for the Palestinian people. They have endured so much pain. The fact that Israel have complete control over their water, food and energy just says everything. I have seen so much footage on the ground in Gaza of children dead, hurt and seriously injured. It is devastating that we live in a world today where "leaders" are supporting this. Just as in the video clip below, May God help us all.

Humza Yousaf’s mother-in-law sends emotional plea from Gaza

Humza Yousaf’s mother-in-law sent an emotional plea from Gaza in a video where she address the hospital situation after the latest Israel attacks. "One milli...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAdL5u4E3t8

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:50

iovebread · 13/10/2023 18:47

I am so devastated for the Palestinian people. They have endured so much pain. The fact that Israel have complete control over their water, food and energy just says everything. I have seen so much footage on the ground in Gaza of children dead, hurt and seriously injured. It is devastating that we live in a world today where "leaders" are supporting this. Just as in the video clip below, May God help us all.

Edited

It is indeed sad that Hamas care more about destroying Israel than looking after their own citizens.

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 18:50

Why is his mother in law not coming to the uk? I don't think it's relevant to be reporting on the mother in law to such an extend. She's hardly more important or vulnerable than other Gazans.

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:55

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 18:50

Why is his mother in law not coming to the uk? I don't think it's relevant to be reporting on the mother in law to such an extend. She's hardly more important or vulnerable than other Gazans.

I wondered that?

To get into Gaza she must have had a pass from the Israeli authorities. So if she can get in, she can get out.

Efacsen · 13/10/2023 18:55

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 18:50

Why is his mother in law not coming to the uk? I don't think it's relevant to be reporting on the mother in law to such an extend. She's hardly more important or vulnerable than other Gazans.

She can't leave

ChickHenLittle · 13/10/2023 19:01

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:55

I wondered that?

To get into Gaza she must have had a pass from the Israeli authorities. So if she can get in, she can get out.

How does she get out? She entered Gaza before the siege.

rinbaud · 13/10/2023 19:02

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:47

I have no idea as I'm not there but we know the author of this information is a Palestinian sympathizer.

If they have no food and no water that is the fault of Hamas, not Israel.

I think you meant to say Hamas sympathizer she is a Palestinian which is a nationality that you get born into. Just saying Hamas started it doesn't absolve Israel of any war crimes they may commit as a consequence. There is the international rules based order something that we like to lecture Russia and other despotic states on and rightly so.

rinbaud · 13/10/2023 19:03

Tessofthebicyles · 13/10/2023 18:55

I wondered that?

To get into Gaza she must have had a pass from the Israeli authorities. So if she can get in, she can get out.

You know how ? You're just making stuff up now.

ForFriends · 13/10/2023 19:08

I find it rather inappropriate to use the platform she has as the first minister's MIL for such ons sided publicity. There are many Brits in Israel who are affected by the massacre, why don't they get to share top spot on the BBC website?

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