To be sickened by Hamas

[MindfullyAmazedHorse]

AIBU to be sickened by what Hamas terrorists have done to innocent Israeli citizens?

I am not totally familiar with the whole Israeli - Palestinian situation. I don’t think anything political can explain what has happened over the last few days.

It is utterly horrendous what Hamas has done. I also think that Hamas are no friend to the Palestinians. They are bringing wrath on them.

I have read that this is the worst attack on innocent Jewish people since the holocaust, which is horrifying.

I am struggling to process these recent events.

It was never a British colony. Britain didn't 'give' the Jewish people Israel.

It's a very important question, though. We know that Hamas' end game is to wipe out the State of Israel, which is very difficult to sympathise with unless you really believe that some European Jews came in and "stole" their land, and there's nothing more to it.

But what is Israel's end game? Is this all about defending themselves, as they claim, or is their plan to hang on to as much land as possible? During a conflict situation, we tend to judge people not just by their actions, but by what they're trying to gain at the end of it.

UN (specifically UNRWA, the aid and development agency for Palestine) reporting 9 of their staffers have been killed in Gaza (by air strikes) since Saturday. Probably Hamas agents.

@Denis44

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not to your own facts. I couldn't care less what your opinions are, but if you say something that is incorrect, I will reply with a correction so that the people reading it are not fed misinformation.

All through this thread, people have engaged in an obvious effort to distort truth, paint terrorists as victims, minimise Hamas' depraved acts, lie to exaggerate Israel's guilt, engage in endless whataboutery and word salads and to a lot of us the real intention behind it is pretty obvious.

They (Hamas) have behaved like islamic state, I think they have taken a page out of their book. Evil and inhuman.

"Please don't bring up Palestinian citizens, because they are not Arab citizens of ISRAEL"

Says everything there need to be said really. Those poor souls are also not citizen of Palestinian territories once settlers stole their house.

Amnesty : Israel occupation - 50 years of dispossession

The UN (well UNRWA) has been saying for days that Israel was bombing the UN safe spaces for civilians to hide.

Fortunately that's not what I said.

@Daftasabroom

In the Arab countries they [Zionists] lived pretty grim lives for a very long time but from 1930 onwards it started to get unlivable and so they made the choice to move to a place where they had rights and could own land equally

Can you explain why you have taken my quote above and inserted the word Zionist? I am talking about Jews living in the Middle East. Jews who had always been there the entire time. How were they either invading or colonising anything?

Can I recommend you start with Googling the diaspora, so you can understand that Jews were forcibly spread around across the middle east, where they were originally from and lived in large numbers in many Arab countries since civilisation began.

Can I also recommend that you read up on what that life was like for them: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries, ironically, under the rule of the people who actually DID move to a place, colonise them and ethically cleanse them
.

Colony no, I should have chosen my words better, would you prefer occupied territory?

But yes, the Brits pretty much did hand over Palestine to Zionists minorities AND commit and enable the ethnic cleansing of the local islamic population.

Holy cow. What part of 'the Jews were always there' are you not understanding!?! And I set out exactly why I think they should have given it to them. I notice you're simply ignoring that. The whole second class citizens thing? For centuries? Yellow stars?

That's because they share the same basic jihadist beliefs.

They also did report Nayirah testimony and the chief North America correspondent of the BBC in Washington ended up calling it their biggest mistake.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/my-greatest-mistake-gavin-esler-presenter-for-bbc-news-24-176433.html

It happens. Now, for the hundredth time, does anyone have a link to an Israeli official confirming the beheadings?

Seriously at no point did I promote genocide (you did) and sending threatening posts about personally reporting me to Mumsnet or the UN or whoever is rather pathetic and destroys any vestige of your credibility.

But at least it clarifies your approach.

I agree with much of this.

The real stumbling block to peace is Hamas. And they’d have known full well the appalling suffering their act of terrorism would unleash on Palestinian civilians.

Hell on earth.

Why are you so obsessed with this? Do you think if this one thing is not true, ( a thing btw I had not even heard of until this thread) that that means there was no atrocity committed against Israeli citizens? Do you think if that one thing never happened the Israeli government is not justified in retaliation to protect its citizens?

Did aliens elect them in 2007? That would be very worrying.

And they’d have known full well the appalling suffering their act of terrorism would unleash on Palestinian civilians.

Oh yes, Hamas will have known full well what the consequences of this would be. They just didn't care.

For all the people clutching their pearls at people in the West protesting to defend Palestine (not Hamas, Palestine), are you this worried about this "having infiltrated us" to quote you

https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1711869282097729617

(video portraying protesters demanding all people in Gaza being killed).

Sorry - I just don't get this whole argument that some arbitrary precedence gives one culture or movement the right to cleanse another off of an occupied or invaded territory.

He sounds like a prick, the whole situation sucks.

It happened to my grandparents in Iraq that they were removed from their home in 1941. Except instead of a chat like the one you just typed out, they were taking us into the road and lynching us and running through the streets screaming for death to Jews. I wasn't born yet, but have read stories of cutting off women's breasts and parading them through the streets like trophies after torturing her to death. They left with nothing - their home for their entire lives gone - their elderly parents murdered and siblings and cousins fleeing to various places. Their entire life evaporated. Not like "hey move next door", literally, flee with nothing today, or die and you're family are dead too.

And guess what? They didn't become terrorists.

They got passage to Egypt and through contacts they had with some sort of fellow in the British army they were given jobs in Alexandria as English teachers. And they lived with about 13 of them (all siblings) in a tiny house and got about building a new life. They all found jobs, married, had children, became part of their local community and then - almost 15 years later the same happened and they had to leave immediately as the ride had turned against Jews and British. Again they left with nothing and all of them ended up in a tiny flat in Yorkshire of all places.

And guess what? They still didn't become terrorists.

They never denied the rights of Palestinians to their own home.

They never felt hatred.

And to imply they didn't experience oppression is farcical. They were second class citizens in the middle east and the only place then got equality was when they landed here (over time anyway) because we don't have dhimmis here. When you don't have dhimmis, people don't need separate countries and they can all live together.

It happens. Now, for the hundredth time, does anyone have a link to an Israeli official confirming the beheadings?

"Yossi Landau, head of operations of the southern region of Zaka told CBS reporters that he had personally seen the bodies of beheaded babies.

A direct eyewitness first responder".

https://twitter.com/OzKaterji/status/1712105959525368044

@BigBillyButterBollocks

"I mean sure, killing everyone in Gaza will kill those who are Hamas member, sure. But that is a genocide."

+++

Cutting off the electricity supply to Gaza in order to reduce Hamas ability to wage war against Israel is not a war crime and it most certainly isn't genocide. It is a standard and established military action when waging a war.

Atrocities were committed by Hamas, undoubtedly.

But a campaign of atrocity propaganda to legitimate starving Palestinians and indiscriminately bombing them is just as bad.

You can't deny people just start to feel less compelled to speak up against what is happening in Gaza now and care less about Gazans if 40 babies have been beheaded. That's the very goal of atrocity propaganda

"Atrocity propaganda is the spreading of information about the crimes committed by an enemy, which can be factual, but often includes or features deliberate fabrications or exaggerations. This can involve photographs, videos, illustrations, interviews, and other forms of information presentation or reporting."