Nieces teenage coffee habit is costing ME money!

[crossroads1]

AIBU... we live with my MIL and whenever my SIL and her husband come to visit, they bring their nightmare of a 13 year old daughter. My SIL and BIL are TIGHT, but stinking RICH. BUT, when they come to ours the daughter always wants to go Starbucks, Costa, fancy coffee shops etc etccc. And the parents sit there while she asks me if we can go.

Sometimes I've said yes (if i want a coffee too) but when I try to make an excuse she doesnt stop. She is never told no. But the thing that IRKS me is when i do agree to take her they never offer to give me money to pay for her coffee habit. Not being funny but in a cost of living crisis, im not happy to pay £5 for her snapchat coffee.

On the flip side, whenever it his her birthday my BIL always puts on a huge birthday, everything paid for (he is generous when it comes to pleasing her and showing off), but AIBU to not want to pay for her coffee habit? I don't mind to take her in the car to Starbucks (obv she doesnt drive) but a little gratitude would be nice! And also the fact that they can defintely afford it, while me and DH are not in the best place financially. We do not have kids yet either.

How do I say no or ask them to give me the money to take THEIR daughter without sounding like a Scrooge or complete B*tch.

Oh this is so common in my community wrt sisters of the dh. It’s literally that dynamic where the brother is seen as caretaker but these sisters are what we call “laadlee” ie spoilt they probably don’t get half as much from their own husbands as they do their brothers. Honestly in these set ups they are relying on the dil to not have a voice because back home it was easy to bully the dil and the Dh would often side with his family and many still want to maintain that status quo even if you financially contribute yourself, the mindsets don’t change. I think it’s great your Dh is listening to you. I have a relative from back home who constantly expected her brother to buy her and her kids material things but not her own husband or in laws. I’m sure they’d give her the short shrift it she did ask so knew her brother would say yes because that’s what ‘good brothers’ do. Once his wife, my cousin had a good word and actually told sil to back off the demands did stop but it was easy for my cousin to speak up because she was higher up in the pecking order because she was British and her sil was from back home and reliant on her good will more. Your in law set up sounds toxic but all too common unfortunately and I always tell dil to stand up for themselves otherwise they are seen as the doormats for life. When you have your own kids I think it might calm down abit but I can imagine it being a headache in a different way and you might end up feeling trapped. Also word of warning you need to make sure anything you are financially contributing to is in your name because if you have kids and take a step back in terms of your earnings, you might end up homeless if you are putting everything into a house that legally you don’t have a share in. I would make sure your Dh is definitely on the same page, I wouldn’t bank on him emigrating with you if he is doing the obligation thing. Tread carefully and command the respect you deserve.

All about upbringing i have realised. I have another niece that never demands and even when I offer she says 'no thank you'. The sweetest child, the difference is she doesnt expect it so i dont mind giving. Its the entitlement that grates me.

It sounds like this goes beyond the coffee. You said above that your SIL and BIL come over and "raid the cupboards." Does this mean they eat whatever is in the house freely or are they also taking non-food items that they feel entitled to, even though you and your dh have bought all these items? Either way, it's very presumptuous and grabby. Do they think that you and your dh are living off of your MIL's savings? Maybe you should have a family meeting with them and explain that you pay the mortgage (even if it's your dh that pays it, you and your dh are married, your money is co-mingled, so it's appropriate to say "my husband and I pay the mortgage) and buy all the food with your own money, as well as looking after your MIL, so when they take food from the cupboards they are actually taking YOUR food, not your MIL's food. I mean, maybe you can come up with a less confrontational way of saying it than "Stop taking our food," but my point is that I think you need to make it more explicit that they are costing you money you don't have when they come over and assume they can just take things, assume you can just take niece out for coffee etc.

You say BIL would laugh in your face if you asked him to give his dd $5 for coffee but that doesn't mean you have to buy it for her yourself. However I do see that there is a bigger issue here of power dynamics within the family and you feeling like you can't speak up for yourself as strongly as you would want, because your BIL and SIL and maybe even your DH would see it as rude if you were any firmer than you are now.

The only thing I would say is that maybe it will help if you really convince yourself you are the adult here and your niece is a child. You really do have the authority to say "no" to her. You don't have to take her for coffee even if she keeps pestering you. You really don't. The other thing I will say is that 13 year olds are acquisitive and some can be manipulative: they want a lot of things and they want them right now! They are a bit like toddlers but with fancier vocabulary. So, again, just because she's nagging you for coffee doesn't mean you have an obligation to give it to her.

You also don't have to use the same social logic with children as you do with adults. Conversations with other adults have to maintain a veneer of respecting the other person's autonomy. With an adult, you could never say, "Stop that right now!" (unless they are interfering with your body or stealing your stuff or something) but you can say it to a kid, because as an adult, there's an awareness that you know better than them what is safe, a good idea, etc. So if your niece keeps saying, "Can we go for coffee? Please? Pleeeeeeeeeeese? Pleeeeeeease!" You can say, "Violet, I've already told you no three times, please stop asking me, it's making my ears hurt." Or, "I can't take you for coffee but I will take you for a nice walk to the park." She doesn't want to go to the park, she wants to go for coffee, but you're the adult, you set the agenda, she doesn't.

You are still the adult, say no.

If you do t mind occasionally ding it then set it as a first visit of the month treat

"We also are trying for kids. I have a feeling this may change dynamic as niece will no longer be number 1 and DH can create some distance. ANy thoughts?"

Unless you actually manage to get your husband to take some ownership of this situation himself (i.e. by stepping in and saying no to the neice himself) I fear that you being pregnant or having kids of your own will not change the power dynamic between your DH and his sibling or between you and your DH as against your neice..

Maybe the family (patronisingly) think "oh crossroads is desperate for kids, here she can look after 13 year old neice, she will love it"
Not the outcome you wanted and you have also been put in the role of Santa not as an adult to be looked up to by your neice.

I really think your husband and your relationship with your husband is the key to all of this OP. Otherwise your husband will just see you as continuing to be part of the big extended family (his big extended family) which, if you don't change it before you have a baby, you might find even harder to tolerate after you have a baby.

Exactly!
So why are you then?

Exactly this. My SIL will ask DH and her brothers for things without hesitation but not her own husband. He is the high earner and controls everything; she is very anxious and relies on my DH alot. But DH is slowly changing and seeing he cant satisfy everyones needs. he is finally putting me first. Financially a lot is tied in with his family (as it is in these cultural situations) but i also have my own savings and assets, everything i have is not tied in with him. ive heard too many horror stories to put all my earnings into MILs house. I have stood up for myself alot. Can i private msg you?

She sounds like almost all the 13 year old girls I know (I own a 14 year old version).

Yes it drives you insane, yes they have olympic medal potential for persistence.

No they honestly don't seem to have a clue what things cost and how much effort goes into earning £10 or whatever.

Yes everything get's photographed and filmed for snapchat, yes they are a TikTok marketeers' dream.

I have contemplated recording myself saying "No" so I can just play that instead of speaking...

These were all lovely, polite little girls, and seem to be becoming nice older teens, but 12-14 seems to be almost like the terrible 2s again in terms of tantrums and demands.

I'm sure your niece will come out the other side too.

“I don’t want one, but if you do, ask your parents.”

If she progresses to asking you direct, just say no.

DH says no firmly to niece. also she doesnt ask him to take her out for coffee; its always me. I think she does like to 'hang out' with me as i am the youngest aunt. DH is very understanding and when i tell him something about his family takes it on board, he scoffs when i say DN wants to go here and there and says he will tell her no which he does. I dont want to be the 'soft aunt' anymore and wont be. This has been a great thread , thank you ladies

6 out of 10 times i dont take her. I dont want her to think she can always try her luck though. Or if she does and i take her i want her DP to have enough sense to step in/offer to pay.

Of course OP feel free to do so. I agree with the advice on here but not always easy to follow when there is a whole ‘system’ to deal with.

You can't change other people's behaviour, just your own.
Pointless waiting for them to step up.
A breezy "No" and its sorted.

Guilty of skim reading the full post OP once I’d got the gist of it and just reading about how she tantrums with YOU, an aunt and arguably not really an aunt. And she’s a teenager! Cor, that takes another level of brat.

I’d easily and happily say no.

I also wouldn't be giving her reasons why you won't buy her things/take her for coffee. Any time you give a reason it just gives her a way to argue with you. You: "I can't afford to take you for coffee." Her: "Well if you would stop buying fancy chocolates for yourself then you could save up that money and THEN you could take me for coffee." (Some of the ideas that kids can come up with for ways you can buy them unreasonable things they want, will destroy your faith in human nature 😁). You're the adult, you don't need to give a reason. "Because I said no" is reason enough. The hard parts are twofold: (a) Saying no in a way that feels kind rather than harsh and (2) sticking with it when they keep nagging. You have to remember they aren't nagging because they are right, they are nagging because it works. So if it doesn't work with you, they'll eventually stop. In terms of saying "no" in a way that seems kind, try replacing a reason with a statement that...actually doesn't even have to be related. It can be a change of subject.
Her:
Aunt Crossroads, can you take me for coffee?

You:
No, Violet, I like how you did your hair. Did you curl it?
or
No, Violet, but I was wanting to ask you, how are your two friends, Belle and Susie? Did they give their ballet recital yet? Wasn't that last weekend?
or
No, Violet, but I can take you the park. Let's make some nice home-brewed coffee to take with us.

Violet: Waaaaahhhh! But I want to go for coffee. Won't you take me, pleeeeeeese?
You: The park is only a ten minute walk and the bluebirds are out. There's a lovely shrub I want to show you that's flowering right now. You can take your cell phone to take pictures of it. Here, you get the flask out of the cupboard, the lower one on the left, and I'll boil the kettle.

See how your response doesn't even need to be logically connected to what she said? You can literally ignore her nagging and talk about something totally different.

Or say 'Yes of course we can, Morrison's will be open', substitute any supermarket with a cafe.

If she goes on persistently and is never told No then you are fully justified in introducing her to the word, 'No, I've already told you No, accept it dear and drop the subject right now'.

Ha, some answers show such naivity! This child isn't looking to make memories she's after getting her own way by trying to bully her Aunt to get her own way.

Say no I can't afford it, and offer to make one instead - you can froth the milk up with one of these https://www.lakeland.co.uk/11733/aerolatte-to-go-handheld-milk-frother-with-storage-tube And buy some chocolate powder to sprinkle on top/

But then 4 out of 10 you do! So don’t? 😂 such an easy solution. What a drama Queen you are.

Just keep saying no, you don’t have to give an explanation.

Just say no, ask your DF
You could add if you're feeling charitable that you're happy to take her for a drive( if you are) but can't afford coffee every time
Cheeky madam knows you're a soft touch

Do they think you are getting something they aren’t as you are living with MIL?

Why can’t you just say ‘no’, exactly? Why all this…drama?

Drama, drama. This is entirely your fault. You say no, and stop complaining about her.

Just say no ffs. Don't be a pushover.