Collective Punishment - No water, no food, no medicines

[Lieblingsessen]

I do not condone whatsoever what the Hamas attacks on civilians in Israel or their ideology

But surely, Israel laying siege to Gaza, preventing innocent civilians from accessing water, food, medicines, electricity for hospital equipment, is not justifiable. To collectively punish civilians who have no control over what Hamas or their government does. This is medieval.

Where is the outcry on the mainstream media about this? Surely it is not being anti-semitic to call out Israel, that retaliation is not unexpected, but collective punishment is horrendous.

Well then they should vote to remove Hamas and reopen negotiations for peace.

But let's be honest, Palestinians objected to the existence of Israel from the outset. They could have accepted the original division of land and who knows we might have had 80 years of peace with a two-state solution.

But they didn't want that, they didn't want a Jewish state at all, so chose war and lost. They've then spent the next 80 years opposing peace at every turn and moaning about how their enemy treats them.

They need to take some agency over the situation and show they're willing to accept Israel has a right to exist.

Jewish people have managed move on from their industrial slaughter and live in peace with their murders and oppressors, there's no reason Palestinians can't do the same if they choose to.

I don't think I was asking why they voted for Hamas. I've heard the pro-Palestinian line on that. I was asking if they had read the founding Hamas charter when they voted and if the women were allowed to vote. I also asked: 'isn't it the case that Palestinian opinion polls show many, if not most, Gazans do support Hamas?'

No one's answered that though. Google is most definitely not capable of answering the first question. The others are ones where I want to hear what the pro-Palestinian side have to say.

You do realise Iran has nuclear weapons? Do you think they will roll over or that Russia will let that happen? Don't be hoping for that to happen.

They are processing it while shouting that they want every Palestinian dead, while their government seems to ensure it is going to be the case.

We need to speak up and someone needs to stop that.

What do those sympathising with Hamas suggest Israel do? Genuine question. Should Israel do nothing? Their only option is to retaliate and target Hamas in Gaza, but with that will come innocent casualties of Palestinians. That’s war unfortunately. If Israel do nothing, Hamas will continue to bomb, kidnap, murder and rape innocent Israeli civilians. If they do what Hamas is (allegedly)fighting for, and Gaza is given back to the Palestinians, then the people there will continue to be under the rule of this barbaric terrorist group. It’s a no win situation whichever direction they take.

That's some of the strangest stuff I've ever read so I won't be responding. This is quite off topic anyway so I'd rather not derail.

I hven't seen anyone sympathising with Hamas?

Just Palestinians.

Considering Israel's expansionism and history of occupation, I don't think any deal Palestinians had talen would have changed shit?

I see you are very into empathy for babies. Except not once are you empathetic about Jewish babies. You don't condone their killing of course. But not a word of condemnation.

Why don't you go fix the plumbing for the baby killer government? We're a little busy fighting for our survival.

I would expect Israel to be capable of leveling Gaza and controlling it.

As for Hamas, it is beyond naive to imagine that they have not given themselves permission to engage in atrocity. However you wrap it up, this degree of co-ordination means they fully intended for this to look as it did.

What they fear is Israel making a good relationship with UAE and Saudi Arabia. This conflict suits them and Iran.

@BigBillyButterBollocks you haven't seen people on this thread complaining about Hamas being called "animals"??

That can be construed as nothing else but support, in my opinion.

You should RTFT.

It's Palestinians who were called animals, don't play stupid.

@BigBillyButterBollocks

I think we are talking at cross purposes.

Women do not have the same rights as men in gaza and yes they have tried to force women to cover up and so on. It's all on Google.
Yes their regime has been likened to the taliban.

We have seen what they have done to the Israelis I don't imagine their behavior is different inside either.

Watch this space. The Iranian regime is next.

No they don’t have nuclear weapons.

You should think about the freedoms you have and stop citing regimes like Hamas and those of the Iranian and Russian regimes as relevant.

You would be pissing your pants in anything other than a democratic society.

I give up. The propaganda to dehumanize Palestinians whole they are being annihilated so peopel look away is too strong.

It is going to get ugly but hopefully, history will look harshly on those who did this.

Pretty sure you'll find a lot of dead children in Gaza today, not to mention those who have already perished over the years from poverty and poor access to healthcare...
I'm tired of Israel being treated like a sacred cow for fear of being labelled anti-semitic.

So firstly you say it's not the Palestinians but Hamas who are responsible for the attacks. Fair enough.

Then the response to the attacks in which they are called animals suddenly refers to all Palestinians?

I do condone it. It goes without saying. Shame you didn't do the same with your views.

For god sake, the poster is clearly Israeli and Israeli babies have been beheaded and women raped next to the dead bodies of their friends. You, like me, are posting from a country where the biggest news story currently is the cancelling of a bloody high speed railway line. If you can't understand why she is posting the way she is, you are so lacking in empathy it is staggering. Have a think about how you would feel if this had happened to your loved ones- if you're capable of that level of basic human understanding- and stop being abusive to the woman.

I hope Hamas’s days are numbered. People who kill and kidnap innocent civilians do deserve to be found and brought to justice and I accept in the circumstances that’s very likely going to mean killing those individuals.

there will never be any chance of talks while they’re still walking around freely. Ultimately it will probably be better for people in Gaza if Hamas were no more.

Hamss have beheaded 40 babies and threw them into mass graves. I woukd imagine the poster is upset about those babies, who apparently don't count, as they are Israeli babies.

Pretty sure you'll find a lot of dead children in Gaza today, not to mention those who have already perished over the years from poverty and poor access to healthcare...
I'm tired of Israel being treated like a sacred cow for fear of being labelled anti-semitic.

How can you in good faith compare raping, pillaging and beheading indiscriminately of men women and children

To a (still tragic) air strike

Can you see the difference between the latter and being a crazed psychopath slaughtering innocents for no reason at all? Neither is GOOD. One is clearly worse.

That's incredibly disingenuous given the living conditions for many Palestinians. You write as if it's equally pleasant to be a Palestinian or an Israeli citizen. As if the human rights violations that Palestinians have been suffering under don't exist. You can't expect a nation to accept that as the price of moving on. Living in deprived circumstances garners bloody revolutions force and support, unfortunately. Israel's policies regarding Gaza have been a mistake. People perceive they have no chance of a better life so they become desperate. Terrorists have fertile ground to work on. There can be victims on more than one side in real life. It's a moment to think of those on both sides who have nothing to do with this lamentable bigotry and hatred.

Hear, hear. I can't imagine the emotions that poster is going through. It doesn't seem to be getting through to people that if your country suffers an act of unimaginable cruelty and brutality, towards babies no less, you might be in a state of deep shock and anger.

Don't be so fucking ridiculous.

It was me who called Hamas "animals" on this very thread last night and numerous MNers jumped in to vilify me for it and called for my posts to be deleted.

If you can't be arsed to RTFT then don't dare call me "stupid".