Children hitting childminder

[Vand]

NC for this.

I have worked in childcare for 15 years and never have encountered behaviour like I have seen in the past 12 months. 3 different children who are between the ages of 6-8 have hit me, kicked, elbowed and pushed on several different occasions.

My approach to children has not changed in those 15 years and I have always had great relationships with the children I care for. I have other children I look after who would not dream of behaving this way so it isn’t a lack of boundaries issue. None of the children who hit have SEN.

I am honestly gobsmacked. I expect hitting from toddlers but developmentally children should be able to control physical outbursts by about 4 years old. The children in question do all have similarities in their home life. Parents working very long hours (sometimes unavoidable I understand) and then children are attending clubs all weekend so are barely getting any time with parents.

AIBU to think it’s linked to this? Because I’m seriously feeling down about my job. I do not go to work to get hit multiple times a week by children and I’m now questioning my ability and whether to pack it all in even though there are other children in my care I have really lovely relationships with. I’ve never known this with multiple children of that age in 15 years of doing this to think they are okay to hit an adult especially someone outside of their family.

This is not acceptable. You must inform the parent about this on the next occasion, saying it is not the first time. They need to take action to support you. Explain to them what you have done when it occurred. After talking to parent it would be helpful to discuss it with the child and parent present, to explain what you will and will not accept. If the parent is unsupportive you need to terminate your arrangement.

Are you telling their parents? What is their response?

Tell their parents what has happened. Give them notice that if it happens again they will need to find alternative care and stick to this policy.

How do you deal with it when it happens? Are any of the children repeat offenders?

This. I would also be inclined to ask the parents of these children how they respond to the child when they do it to them, and if they claim it doesn't, then ask them how they want you to deal with it. If they're wishy washy about it, I would tell them that their parenting style leaves a lot to be desired and you aren't prepared to work on those terms, and give notice.

They are very wishy washy. Usually a ‘oh that’s not very nice is it’ but I know these parents don’t like to upset their kids out of guilt they basically don’t see them apart from putting them to bed. I genuinely think it’s a case of they don’t even have the time in the day to parent their kids and the kids are lashing out because of it.

I follow method of a reminder for kind hands, then a chance to address if there is anything upsetting them/if they need a hug etc but warning that if they do it again they are in time out. The tantrums that happen when they are sat out are ridiculous. They will actively run and scream and hit again if they are brought back to the time out spot. This is manageable with toddlers as ratios allow it in nursery settings etc. but when they are older and it is just me, the ratios are not expecting children of that age to be on a rampage.

I really think people took the gentle parenting thing way too seriously. I have managed my entire career without resorting to shouting at kids as I would be seriously abusing my position of trust if i was, but these kids are not told no and to hit an adult who isn’t even in their family has me shocked if I’m honest with the absence of SEN.

Definitely think these children will not be in my care for much longer. Which is sad because I think they are lovely funny children but it’s at a point that their behaviour is too much to address in a group setting.

None of the children who hit have SEN.

You don't know this. They may not be diagnosed SEN but that doesn't mean they're not.

My son hits. He's almost 5. I'm tearing my hair out over it. He has hit his nursery teacher and he's been physical with his school teacher. It's awful. But blaming the parents for having a career is not the answer - I feel guilty enough about working fill time as it is. I strongly suspect my son is ASD (assessing him soon) but he doesn't 'seem' it to an external perspective - if you were watching him play, unless you're an expert, you'd have no idea he wasn't a normal little boy. I've been scoffed at so many times when I've mentioned ASD but now the hitting has started, finally people are starting to listen to me.

By the way, I'm a teacher. I absolutely would not put up with being hit by the kids I teach. I'm just trying to offer a different perspective.

Sounds like the parents don’t spend enough time with these kids to even know if there are markers for SEN. I wonder how they behave in school and if their teachers have picked up on/witnessed this behaviour.

This is what schools have been seeing for a few years. Levels of ASN re emotional & behavioural issues are through the roof in 4-12 year olds. It's not you it's just an epidemic of needs and then schools not putting boundaries or any lines in the sand. Really shocking. I'd personally class any child who is violent as having significant ASN and cut the numbers you take while charging a higher rate for a specialist service.

I spent 7 years working in SEN, identifying kids to be put forward for assessment. So I do feel like I have a pretty good judgement on this.

I did suspect that one of the children could possibly have SEN when I first started working with them but I no longer believe this.

I can understand where it may be a question of if there is SEN involved but it’s not The hitting comes across with these children. I have worked with ASD children and it’s not the same as when those children cannot communicate their emotions properly. There is attitude from them, they will smirk and laugh when they are told not to hit and do it again. If they are getting some cuddles and then have to share my attention they will lash out. They’ll also lash out when they see their parent arrive, be told off by myself and then run crying to parent. I truly feel that They are lashing out because they are not getting needs met by their parents and it’s so sad but I am not their punching bag.

Time outs are very outdated. Early years settings don't use them any more. The children learn nothing from them.

You seem very judgemental about the parents and not to like the kids. If you were my childminder I'd prefer you to just give me notice so I could find someone else.

Do your children behave like this?. You are deflecting. Her stating how the children behave is not her not liking them. Also they sound unlikeable.

Nope they don't. I still wouldn't want a childminder who judged my parenting/working and didn't like my DCs.

It’s a bit odd to work in a field that relies on children not being with their parents as a source of income and then judge the parents for not spending time with their children. In any case, you can just refuse to have those particular children, surely.

I’m not a childminder but I have been in a situation where a child under my care displayed inappropriate behaviour for her age. We did speak to her parents and her father’s reaction was to say “This is becoming a habit isn’t it Ann”. It was a case of both parents always working and the child not getting any time with them either during the week or at weekends. She acted out as it was the only time her parents appeared to notice her.

It could be a similar case here but nobody should have to put up with it.

Child’s name was changed.

Time outs are very outdated. Early years settings don't use them any more. The children learn nothing from them.

^

So what works??

Because op has had 15 years of it working, so what do you suggest she does instead?

My time outs aren’t ‘stand and face the wall quietly’ time outs. They are putting the child in a place they have space to decompress and calm down so we can have a discussion afterwards about why they behaved how they did. But yes there are times a child who is acting violently must be brought back to that place several times after doing a runner because the alternative is them running off again to hit or cause destruction.

I’ve seen a lot of gentle parenting people say they’d let them deal with the consequence of cleaning up the mess they make in an outburst. But this is a 7 year old in one case and I have other children to care for. So I’m not allowing any child to cause intentional destruction or go on a rampage and they will have to sit out. Don’t forget I’m talking about children in Year 2, not toddlers!

OP my friend wprks in an after school childcare setting she has also worked in nursery care. 35 years working with children in the U.K. and abroad. She has three kids of her own who are all grown up now and 3 step children also all grown up.

She could have written some of your post - including the SEN experience. She works with some kids with SEN too. Also has no SEN suspicions in these cases.

She's faced a number of incidents, including being hit by school age children, since the summer. In all cases, the behaviour would be expected/normal in pre-schoolers and possibly EY children. In all cases the children receive more attention from parents as a result.

She's not against working parents as she's always worked too! Not all the parents work, but kids are in daily after school care until 6pm (we're in Europe).

I know about these incidents because my friend is wondering whether she can keep working with kids. She's really upset and how she's being spoken to, 8-year olds lying about quite serious things like she locked one in a cupboard (obviously she didn't and there isn't anywhere a child could be locked anyway, as the parents were shown..then they switched to "but you traumatised my child"). We've talked a lot because it's incredibly stressful - even though her managers all have her back, because a) they know her and b) she doesn't work alone, so there's a witness to everything that (doesn't) happen!

She's said most kids are fine and she enjoys them. Can be naughty or cheeky, but all to be expected. There's a change though with these others. She's not experienced it before. Their parents are far more inclined to blame her and cuddle their poor child, than tell their 8-year old not to be hitting.

@DivorcingEU Thank you for your reply! It’s almost comforting to know I’m not the only one in this boat. I of course have no issue with working parents, I will add though that the parents of the children I am talking about in my OP are not working class and work to make ends meet. They are people with very developed careers and make a lot of money. So I suppose I am less sympathetic.

It must be great money wise and fulfilling To them to be so far into their careers. But at what cost? Would cutting down hours and having one or two less holidays abroad a year not be worth spending more time with your child On a day to day basis so that they don’t have violent behavioural problems? No brainier to me but I don’t think that opinion would go down well on MN.

Perhaps the children want the arrangement to break down so they can be at home.

Children should not be hitting you job is to look after them

It is not to psychological profile the reason people use childcare

Sounds like you are in the wrong career yourself, not sure how les holidays mean children will hit less but something tells you have your own agenda up your sleeve and you know this already

I don't get the judgement about careers myself as a former childminder.

The great thing about being a childminder though is you don't have to put up with this. Tell each parent you are considering giving notice if things don't improve. Make sure they have copies of your behaviour policy. Advise them on how you're dealing with it. Give them a time frame for it to improve and if it doesn't give notice.

It sounds like they're not taking it seriously at the moment. They will do if you give them the potential headache of having to find new childcare.

I would give notice if it continues and parents aren't dealing with it. You are self employed you don't have to put up with it. Plus if the other children are going home and telling their parents it looks bad on you and you may find your others families leaving instead.

My previous childminder had in the contract that there was zero tolerance to any violence and any incidents would result in parents having to collect and exclusion until the next day. Repetition would lead to termination of contract. Is that an option? So that the parents feel and take the consequence if it occurs and they can take actions with the children to avoid the exclusion element?