Guest staying for 2 full weeks every Christmas without asking

[Lightthatnevergoesout]

I have got a great relationship with both of DH's divorced parents. We get along fine and I love it when they come over. However, DH's relationship with his dad has always been really cold and all they talk about is grandchildren (our kids) and sports. It becomes even more obvious when they can spend hours sitting next to one another on a sofa without having any deep conversations. I end up constantly coming up with the topics to talk about.

Every single winter my father in law comes over and stays in a flat in a house next to us every Christmas. He hasn't got any interests of his own so comes to simply follow whatever we are doing. For example he would often come over to our house at 7 am and leave at 22.30 to sleep in his accommodation. During the day he would stay in the living room the whole day expecting for us to have some kind of plans every single day.

Christmas break is the only break my DH gets from his job and because his father in law comes for these whole 2 weeks we often don't even get a chance to spend one on one time together. He is bad at babysitting kids ad he shouts and gets anxious if they misbehave and on the times we attempted to sneak out on a date he lost it with the kids.

We have politely hinted that we might have plans/friends over/a short booked trip but that really doesn't seem to change much as he would just come for 1 day less. DH gets really anxious prior to him coming but then again failed to say anything and now we are once again stuck with him coming for 14 full days which would mean us cooking every single day, cleaning, washing and planning activities . We feel often trapped in our house as he can knock on the door when we are still sleeping or stay till 23 when we both just want to spend time together !

AIBU To think that my husband should have talked to him earlier (he had whole year since last Christmas) and explained that it is too long for a visit and really doesnt leave us with any time to just sit in our pyjamas and relax the way we might want to?

Yes he lives about 5 hours away. He has a very demanding job and Christmas is the time where he can have a longer stretch off. No we can never visit him at his place as its not suitable for children to stay there.

Stop moaning then, if you're happy to keep being a doormat every year.

@Lightthatnevergoesout - I think you're getting angry at the wrong people here. You've commented to @SaturdayGiraffe and now @PosterBoy but they are only able to post what they have because they are going on what you have said about your FiL.

You (and I count your DH in that) are being passive about dealing with the situation, because it keeps happening to you and your children.
Please send him a message as soon as you can to let him know that he can't visit with you for the time frame that he has booked. Your FiL and your DH's dad has absolutely no idea that he is and has overstayed his welcome. Time to lay it out for him.

You're not his social crutch here. If he doesn't have friends, he needs to make some. He needs to start socialising and expanding his social group so he has more places to go. He's an adult and is not your responsibility.

I agree with this. STOP thinking that your FIL is a guest and that therefore you HAVE to entertain him and change what you would normally do. Change your mindset. He is Family.

Just do the things you want to do - like sitting watching lots of Kids programmes on TV, eating ice cream in your jammies whatever. Don't go to all the effort of trying to make conversation, etc.

In my view, it is a bit late now to tell him to come for only a few days, since he has booked the rental property and presumably paid it, as it is at Christmas. But you can start, by telling him to please not come over before 10am or 11 am or whatever suits, as you need some time to be organised as a family. It is NOT rude to go and have a nap - or go to your room and read a book or whatever.

It seems to me you are making a rod for your own back by feeling the need to 'entertain' FIL instead of him just slotting into whatever routine you want over Christmas. Also not rude to tell him you want need an early night and you are going to bed - so would he mind heading back to his rental place

It's not too late to inform him there will be changes this year.

'Hi FIL
Thanks for letting us know the dates you have booked for Christmas. I need to let you know that we need to make some changes this year, as we are both very tired/had a busy year and really need some downtime over the Christmas Holidays, instead of still being exhausted when we go back to work, like we usually are.

To that end, we need you to not come over to us until after (x) time every morning. After that, you need to take us as you find us. We won't always be going out and we may have takeaways some nights .etc. May also have friends over some days, and/or be invited out to friends, when you'll have to find things to do on your own while we are out. I'm sure you won't mind, but thought it best to forewarn you now. Etc etc '

Will take the comments on board! It's not as simple as some posters here put it though when he comes. It's very hard for us to carry on as we normally do when my FIL is here firstly because he doesnt go and do anything himself at all and when he is in the house he comments on everything. For example if I leave to a kitchen and have a piece of chocolate he would follow just to make a joke 'is it you snacking again on some chocolates away from the kids'. Sometimes I will be reading a bed time story to my kids on my bed and he will just come over and lay on a bed next to me and listen to me read which makes me uncomfortable. I don't think he realises those things he is just lonely and lacks social skills. So boundaries whilst he is here don't really work and but being firm on the days is the way to go. So hoping to re arrange for him to come for at least less days.

So no we can't just do whatever we normally do as he is not used to living with other people and just leaving them at peace for 10 mins or so. I know it's not my problem but it's impossible to change him at this stage and I don't fancy spending Christmas holidays trying to change someone who us not even my father. I got my hands full with my kids and just want to enjoy a holiday season.

What do you want from this thread, OP?

We cannot change your FIL. We can only tell you what you can do. But you seem to be saying that you will not change anything for reasons x y z, you will do everything the same, the exact same things that have landed you in this difficult situation, yet you want a different outcome?

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” - Rita Mae Brown

Are you Asian/Indian by any chance?

So no we can't just do whatever we normally do as he is not used to living with other people and just leaving them at peace for 10 mins or so. I know it's not my problem but it's impossible to change him at this stage and I don't fancy spending Christmas holidays trying to change someone who us not even my father. I got my hands full with my kids and just want to enjoy a holiday season.**

I'm a bit confused now @Lightthatnevergoesout . In one of your earlier posts on this thread, you said 'my father in law sits and looks in his phone and my husband is listening to his music in headphones'. The picture you painted until this post I'm quoting from, is that your FIL doesn't do anything, sits around doing nothing and not saying very much. You certainly gave the impression that you had to organise everything in order to do anything, which is why many of the replies have given the advice they have.

I can't quite marry that up with 'he never leaves anyone at peace for even 10 minutes', which indicates a different issue overall. Please don't get me wrong, I absolutely understand how resentful you are that a whole 2 weeks at Christmas having another person practically living with you - at any time in fact- is spoiling the season and I completely understand that you are sorry for him - but you do have choices: even if that choice is 'I am going to put up with it because I am sorry for him and couldn't do otherwise' it IS still a choice.

However, your OP asked if you were unreasonable to think your husband should have spoken to your FIL before now - and no YANBU to have expected him to do that, he should have. But it seems to me that you would be happy to see FIL much less as long as your husband deals with it, so actually, whether you recognise it or not, I think you just don't want to be seen as the bad one and aren't as sorry for FIL as you say, as long as your DH is the one that deals with it and not you? I say that gently and kindly

It's very hard for us to carry on as we normally do when my FIL is here firstly because he doesnt go and do anything himself at all and when he is in the house he comments on everything.

He will not change. It is up to you to set boundaries. If it's me, I will smile (or not) but stop replying. A conversation cannot happen if the other person does not reply. Let him comment. You just turn a deaf eye and keep doing your chores. I will do this every time he is being a pest, until he gets the message.

For example if I leave to a kitchen and have a piece of chocolate he would follow just to make a joke 'is it you snacking again on some chocolates away from the kids'.

He will not change. It is up to you to set boundaries. If it's me, I'd say, "Yes I love chocolates. Do you want one?". If the FIL teases me further and I am feeling particularly snarky, I'd say, "Yes, I am eating chocolates. Don't you think I deserve to eat things I love?" I will do this every day, until he gets the message.

Sometimes I will be reading a bed time story to my kids on my bed and he will just come over and lay on a bed next to me and listen to me read which makes me uncomfortable.

He will not change. It is up to you to set boundaries, tell him he is making you uncomfortable. Or, if that is too confrontational, I will just lock the door before he comes in, saying I need to change my dress. I will do it every night until he gets the message.

OP, if you are so scared of setting even simple boundaries, you are either terrified of offending people even when they cause you discomfort (if yes, please ask yourself why), or you are such a doormat/people pleaser that you will never be comfortable in your own home. And no, you are not being a good role model to your kids, I'm sorry to say. My mother was exactly like you, she will always put the needs of the guests before us, and it created lifelong issues for us.

I have said that I will be asking him to reduce the days he comes for as I want to have a few days with my friends and to get some proper rest in my own house. Thats us being clear that we can't accommodate him for longer than x amount of days.

No I am not Asian nor Indian what a weird assumption to make. Also all Asian people do not have the same 'Asian' mentality so you can go 'ah get it she is Asian that explains everything'. And its not my family its my white British FIL and yes I can't simply tell him to back off when he comes because of just some basic respect.

One day, these annoying people will be gone forever, and you will wish you had these years back with them.... its only a few days out of the whole year X

OP please ignore grumpymole's response above. It's not just a few days out of the year, it's yours and your family's only Christmas holiday EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
Please just think about that for a bit next time you dismiss the idea of setting any boundaries with this man. These are your children's only childhood Christmases; not just theirs but the only ones you'll get to have with them. And you're choosing, every year, to spend them being effective prisoners in your own home. You're prioritising not wanting to make your fil feel uncomfortable over your children enjoying their Christmas holidays.

it's impossible to change him at this stage

I don't think he realises those things he is just lonely and lacks social skills.

FFS OP, he doesn't REALISE those things because he's not a mind reader, he may be trying to initiate a conversation or connect with you, he may not realise that what he's doing is making you uncomfortable, why would he? You pretend for two full weeks that it doesn't!!

I may as well talk to the wall over there when I say this.. BUT why don't you be a grown up and TALK to him about it privately one day.. you could explain in quite reasonable, completely non-confrontational terms that the 'hovering' he does sometimes, makes you feel like you're being watched and it makes you feel a bit on edge, like you can't relax. Once you've had this conversation and got it out in the open how you feel, you would be able to reinforce it, for example if he follows you while you grab a bit of chocolate, rather than being awkward about it just address it there and then, give him a smile and say 'you're hovering again, what's up?'

It's like you're a passenger in your own life, I would NEVER put up with feeling like this in my own home if there was an easy solution staring me in the face, you've not even tried to talk to him! How can you say it's impossible to change him if you've never tried?

I am not being a role model to anyone I am a human being with flaws like anyone else I don't pretend to be perfect for my kids and that's why we have a great relationship. They love their grandpa coming over and spoiling them with extra attention and gifts as they dont have much of an ourside family and there is nothing wrong with that. My op is not about that.

Who assumed you are Asian/Indian? I didn't. All I asked was if you are one, because this dynamic you have outlined so far is a common one in my culture (whether you may believe it or not, I request you not to invalidate my lived experience for several decades) and as an Asian/Indian myself, I wanted to know it to give relevant suggestions. But if you are going to get get defensive and snap back at posters who are only trying to help you, because that is the point of a message board, well, suit yourself and enjoy your christmas.

Because we suspect he has severe ocd and might have a mild autism ! And if 15 years of marriage didn't change him nor all the years he been raising his son do you actually think me having a chat with him will?

He still makes the same comments to his ex wife (my MIL) that he made when they were married decades ago even though he knows she is annoyed by that.

But no we don't want him to be completely alone for Christmas hence this post and us trying to find a compromise.

I agree life would have been easy if you could just see everything in black and white.

And its not my family its my white British FIL and yes I can't simply tell him to back off when he comes because of just some basic respect.

This is the saddest thing I have read today. What does setting boundaries have to do with 'basic respect'? Do you think setting healthy boundaries so that you can feel comfortable in your own home, is disrespectful?

What is stopping you from going out for the evening with friends, or even in the daytime with friends or kids and leaving them to it? Surely they don't expect you to be there 24/7.

I appreciate that but I do not like suggestions based on culture as I believe it creates assumptions about people behaviour when situations like that can happen regardless of one's background.

@Lightthatnevergoesout - when you write this:
"But no we don't want him to be completely alone for Christmas hence this post and us trying to find a compromise."
The compromise is that you tell him that he can arrive for Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

He won't be alone for Christmas then.

Tell him, don't ask him as he will ignore your requests as he won't think he's doing anything wrong or overstepping.

You may not like it, but this is 2023 and it is acceptable to be sensitive to cultural factors at play.

Probably OP might be under the impression that some great disrespect will be inferred and possibly create a catastrophe in the family if she is not there to micro manage every minute of her DH and FIL's time together.

Either that, or she is conditioned to believe that these two men will blame her for not being there to entertain them all day.

Because we suspect he has severe ocd and might have a mild autism ! And if 15 years of marriage didn't change him nor all the years he been raising his son do you actually think me having a chat with him will?

You're just being deliberately obtuse now, no I'm not expecting HIM to change, I'm expecting YOU to change how you respond to him, by having a talk to him about what makes you uncomfortable, it gives you the get out card you require to remove yourself.

For example, if he was to follow you to the kitchen, you could just say 'you're hovering again Fred' 'what's up?' if he says that's nothing is up, then just say 'okay then, well if there's nothing you need, I'd like a bit of alone time if you don't mind' then stand your ground in silence and wait for him to leave.

Because you've already HAD the conversation and told him that his hovering annoys you, you now have the power to reinforce what you've talked about.

You're either afraid of him, or the prospect of offending him is paralysing you for some reason.

JFC it's like talking to a wall! Nobody is expecting your FIL to change, OP. We are suggesting that you change, so that you can be comfortable in your own home. I don't understand why that suggestion makes you so angry?

OP, I don’t know why you’re getting so defensive, perhaps you’re feeling judged? I don’t think anyone here wants you to feel that way. Honestly, I’m in awe that you haven’t lost your everloving shit with your DH and FIL before now. We all want you to be able to enjoy your Christmas, so we’re making suggestions using the information provided in combination with our own experiences. Obviously we can’t know all the nuances of your situation, so take our suggestions with a pinch of salt, but we’re really just trying to help.

If you suspect he has autism / OCD this is even more of a reason to TELL your FIL of your RULES.

I agree, you shouldn't be trying to change him, merely giving him your expectations of his duration (e.g. maximum 4 nights stay) and that he can't come round at x time etc.

I don't really know what you want from this thread. We all think it's U that he stays for 2 weeks and that you 'host' him for the duration - all of that sounds bonkers, exhausting and unsustainable.

We all agree that you (DH /you) need to TELL him these things if you want change. In your replies, it's as if you have no agency and you do. So what if he has a full on job that only settles down over Christmas - it doesn't give him the right to spend it all with you

I am afraid you are being a doormat. Stop prevaricating and start taking action.