Guest staying for 2 full weeks every Christmas without asking

[Lightthatnevergoesout]

I have got a great relationship with both of DH's divorced parents. We get along fine and I love it when they come over. However, DH's relationship with his dad has always been really cold and all they talk about is grandchildren (our kids) and sports. It becomes even more obvious when they can spend hours sitting next to one another on a sofa without having any deep conversations. I end up constantly coming up with the topics to talk about.

Every single winter my father in law comes over and stays in a flat in a house next to us every Christmas. He hasn't got any interests of his own so comes to simply follow whatever we are doing. For example he would often come over to our house at 7 am and leave at 22.30 to sleep in his accommodation. During the day he would stay in the living room the whole day expecting for us to have some kind of plans every single day.

Christmas break is the only break my DH gets from his job and because his father in law comes for these whole 2 weeks we often don't even get a chance to spend one on one time together. He is bad at babysitting kids ad he shouts and gets anxious if they misbehave and on the times we attempted to sneak out on a date he lost it with the kids.

We have politely hinted that we might have plans/friends over/a short booked trip but that really doesn't seem to change much as he would just come for 1 day less. DH gets really anxious prior to him coming but then again failed to say anything and now we are once again stuck with him coming for 14 full days which would mean us cooking every single day, cleaning, washing and planning activities . We feel often trapped in our house as he can knock on the door when we are still sleeping or stay till 23 when we both just want to spend time together !

AIBU To think that my husband should have talked to him earlier (he had whole year since last Christmas) and explained that it is too long for a visit and really doesnt leave us with any time to just sit in our pyjamas and relax the way we might want to?

OP...you need some boundaries. I don't think it's your father in law's fault, he's just done what he's always done and if he's otherwise lonely he might look forward to being in the middle of family life.

As he's now texted you with his plans, this is your perfect opportunity to set the scene. Presumably you don't mind him staying next door for the full two weeks, but you don't want him in the house constantly? So sit down with DH and work out the boundaries and what a good Christmas looks like to you. And then it's a case of DH saying, 'we're going to do Christmas a bit differently this year. We're going to have some friends over or go out, so on those days, please can you look after yourself? There's a nice pub up the road which does a great lunch etc...'

No need for a big confrontation, just tell the chap where the lines are. Hopefully he'll understand what you're saying and it'll be easier from there.

As the saying goes, 'boundaries are the hardest thing in the world to set but the easiest thing in the world to keep.'

I really do think you'll have to tell him or he'll be coming over for the 2 weeks every year until he passes away.

Imagine 20 or more years of it!

It's truly a shame he won't join any clubs or activities where he lives.

In your OP you said you have a great relationship with both of DH divorced parents but later you twice claim that FIL is the only grandparent your children have contact with…that’s confusing…

Anyway, seems like you’ve been given a lot of good advice here but that you’re reluctant to take it so seems there’s a limit to what you can do.
If you are looking to proactively change things, I’ll echo plenty of the advice already given;
tell him this year only x date to y date work for you.
don’t work your plans around him, if you want to go out as a 4 tell him you’ll be busy but see him at z time.
don’t answer to door if it’s not a good time.
stop being the one to do all the cooking/talking/entertaining.

The person struggles with boundaries a lot so this is very hard to make him understand at his age. When he is at his home he does the same thing every single day and doesn't need to negotiate with nobody. He is goes to work and rhen he is just on his own.

We tried and tried to set boundaries but unfortunately he just doesn't understand that. We have negotiated that he would come for 2 days less as we will have other people coming over for lunch/dinner.

We care about him a lot and I don't want to constantly tell him come now/go away by 7/ sorry can't see you today. He comes a long way to be with his family and I want it to be a quality time. I don't mind that at all. The problem is the ammount of days leaving us with just a few days to clean the house and then being back in work.

I will try and adjust his days for a couple of days less.

He sounds like a grumpier version of my FIL. Fortunately he has a partner to keep him busy some of the time. He's intolerable if they break up. You just need to be direct and say you want some time to yourself, well your DH does. Otherwise nothing will change. Fil won't change, he's never going to take up hobbies or get a personality.

I think you might have to do exactly that if you want anything to change. But also the night before say to him - please don’t come over early, I want to sleep in / prep the gifts / clean the house. If he struggles with social clues then you need to be really really clear. It will be awkward but worth it in the longer term.

I'm picking up on little nuances in your writing which makes me think that English isn't your first language. Are there some cultural norms here regarding putting up with elders that on we wouldn't expect in the UK? This would also explain the discrepancy regarding holiday allowance.

No I speak 5 languages and often mix some things up but been living in the UK since I was a student. My father in law is British. Culture is not an issue here.

He's entitled, lazy, boring and short tempered - I can see why you say he's lovable and how much you love seeing him and MIL (whom you say never sees your children, so are the DC out when she comes over?).

I've noticed it's a practice on MN that no matter how awful an inlaw/family member is, women must state how much they love them - love seeing them, love having them over, before going on to describe a patently unlovable person and then outlining clearly how much they don't enjoy seeing them. You can just be honest you know. Women shouldn't have to pretend to love everyone, particularly people who do nothing to earn it.

If he is ND then start being very clear with him. No coming round until 9am, don't interrupt us in the bathroom (wtf is that about? "is it safe to come in?"!!), leave at 9pm. I used to be a people pleaser so I empathise, but you need to set boundaries because nobody else is.

I'd start with the holiday entitlement to be honest.

It's a legal requirement, unlike the requirement to sit in your house for 2 weeks with someone irritating. That's just a choice.

If he comes to you at 7am, send your husband around at half 6. Your husband will have to learn the word ‘no’ to deal with all attempts yourFIL makes to come to your house before an agreed time.

Next year - starting in March and repeated monthly: “it’s lovely seeing you at Christmas, but we can only do a week between X and Y this year” and stick to it.

It’s quite frustrating to read your responses. You don’t like what’s happening but won’t have a direct conversation, instead hinting when you know he doesn’t pick up hints. You won’t make the time more bearable for you by doing any of the things suggested because you’re “not that person”. Which means the status quo persists, he carries on walking all over you, and your resentment builds.

YANBU for not wanting him in your house for 16 hours every day for 2 weeks, following you from room to room, and not even able to use the bathroom in peace.

YABU for expecting it to change without any direct action from you.

All evidence suggests that any action will have to come from you. Your FIL is oblivious, and your husband is too enmeshed in a dysfunctional relationship to tackle it.

I would tell my DH to go and stay with his father for one week, I couldn’t carry on like this.
My FIL was oblivious to anything anyone else, he put himself first and I ended up being barely civil to him. Some men just think themselves far more important than anyone else.

I think you need to start putting foot down with FIL.

He knocks at 7:30am in the morning - tell him a couple of evenings as he leaves that everyone needs an extra sleep in the morning so he is NOT to knock until 10am (perhaps send him home with the makings of breakfast for suggest a nice cafe that is open early).

Tell him you are having visitors certain days - let DCs have play dates they can't normally. Have a couple of friends in for coffe, cake and natter; have 1 or 2 other couples or families in for relaxed dinner...normal things families do with their time off.

Tell him one afternoon that you need a chance as a family to relax together with a movie as you both work so hard you never get a chance to have fun with the DCs.

Tell him before he comes that this year, you have realised that, as a family, you are not making enough time for each other, you've all had a hell of a year and need to decompress and relax. That lovely as he is, his presence is not relaxing. So you would prefer if his stay is a few days shorter this year.

And you need to stop making so much effort. It is DH's DF so he needs to be far more involved in organising and entertaining. You are allowed to go out and meet friends or go shopping or have a couple of hours getting mails done or whatever. You can meet friends for drinks,(9 to dc pre- Christmas school events, watch a movie in a cinema, or just go for a long walk as a family in peace.

This is ridiculous, your husband is spineless and you’re a martyr. This is a grown man you’re talking about for god sake, not a lost 5 year old. Why aren’t you insisting he cook and help with housework whilst he’s there instead of running around serving him for two weeks solid? Why can’t either of you tell him to leave early evening because you want some time together as a couple? I don’t understand what’s so hard about that.
When does your husband ever see his MiL? You said you get on with her, yet the kids never see her, why? When does she ever get to visit and see her grandkids at Christmas or any other time?

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

It seems like he sticks to a routine in all aspects of his life so changing his visiting routine will be difficult for him to adjust.

Does he live miles away? That may be a reason for his long visits.

Can't you visit him one Christmas to break the routine?

Do you only see him at Christmas?

You mention he is old and in the next breath you say he works. I'm not saying you don't work when you are old, just trying to work out what his day to day life is like.

Regarding you saying you try to start a conversation with your husband and father in law as otherwise they sit in silence. One with headphones on and the other on their phone. On one hand it's quite common to sit in compatible silence, however I think it's rude of your husband to have headphones on. That's like telling the father in law, kids and you not to disturb him. I would be offended by this. I've had similar experiences when my late husband was alive. He would invite his parents over then fall asleep so I would have to entertain them. Or he would be in the garage or cutting the grass. He had a very good relationship with both parents. I did say to him in the end that if he doesn't make more of an effort then don't invite them over. He did listen and made more of an effort. It wasn't that he was consciously ignoring them. He worked away a lot so when he had a chance to be at home, he liked doing jobs indoors.

Oh and if he won't babysit, (or can't), book a babysitter for you and DH to go out for dinner one night, and also send fil home early at least once with suggestive winks that you and DH need couple time (whether that is upstairs or just you both chilling with a movie snuggled up together).

now we are once again stuck with him coming for 14 full days which would mean us cooking every single day, cleaning, washing and planning activities

Why does it mean you have clean and wash every single day, over and above what you would normally do?

When someone comes that long I think you need to treat them as one of the immediate family not a visitor

So when you say you couldn't go up for a nap or spend all day on your pyjamas as that's rude ... no it's not .

Similarly it's ok to say "I cooked yesterday - so are you cooking today ?"

@Lightthatnevergoesout

You seem to be wracked with guilt and this seems to be stopping you from making change.

If you think you can't change the dates this year (BTW you can) - you need to explicitly say 'Please don't come round before 10am.' 'Please make yourself tea.' 'We'll be going to bed at 10pm tonight.'

You seem to think change will just happen organically - it won't. Your DH &/or you are actually going to have to SAY something to your FIL - being specific and directional. If your DH won't do it, then you are going to have to do it. If you do nothing, nothing will change.

I would hate to think I was over staying my welcome at a relative or friends house.
I can understand him going to see what the children are doing if they are in another room. Just seems like he has been left in a room so he goes to see where everyone is to be sociable.
Knocking on bathroom doors seem odd unless you don't have a separate toilet and he is busting to go to the loo.
Are you sure you are not making it sound worse than it is because you are frustrated with the situation.
Would it be better to change things around a bit.
One year he visits Christmas, another time Easter or even in kids school holidays.
Could you invite your parents over at the same time do he has someone of his own age to chat to?
Depending how fit he is, spend a couple of hours bowling, cinema etc where you would have fun too. He might even be up for swimming.

Think of somewhere different that is out of your comfort zone and it might make you feel empowered and happy that you tried something different.

and just do whatever you want to do - why on earth does having him around stop you inviting friends over or going out

"We're off to meet some friends tomorrow - you're welcome to use our home if that helps and I'll leave bread and milk available "

the problem isn’t your FIL op, it’s the fact that you’re a martyr, all the good advice about accommodating him without doing anything different in your day to day from what you’d normally be doing you seem to just be ignoring in favour of arguing with people who think you should set more harsh boundaries, there is a middle ground here, if you can’t tell him you and DH want an early night, or you want to go for a nap etc, or you’re going out with friends then I’m not sure what you’re expecting from this post to be fair?

one thing you do need to be doing is STOP intervening in this ‘awkward’ silence nonsense, your FIL lives on his own, he will spend at least 90% of his home life in silence, to him it’s not awkward, he probably just appreciates being with you DH, even if they’re not actively ‘chatting’ just leave him/them to it.

With regards to him pestering you, I’m assuming you have locks on certain doors like bathrooms? So if he’s knocking you up just ignore if it’s not convenient, the other thing you could do is wear ear buds around the house sometimes so he SEES you using them, then if he ever questions why you didn’t answer him, you can just say sorry I had my headphones in (even if you didn’t), it’s a bit of a get out clause when you need a break.

The best thing you could do for everyone’s sake is to stop treating him as a special guest and start treating him as an extra member of the family for 2 weeks.

No child should ever have to ‘stand up for themselves’ against their grandparent. Not sure what the thread is for, you’ve dismissed people’s advice entirely.

My mother in law works during Christmas. Its her busy time. When she comes she stays with us in our bedroom and we go in a different room. It's easier with her as DH gets along well with her and she in return respects him and respects our boundaries. She only comes for 5 days at a time because she understands that we need time to ourselves. She normally visits 2 or 3 times a year when she gets a chance and we feel at ease around her. Again the main reason for that is because DH is calm and chatty and I can just go to sleep or read a book myself knowing that they r having nice chat and laugh about things in the next room. I also often go shopping with her/ can meet with a friend whilst she is at home playing with the kids. She is more easy going.