Guest staying for 2 full weeks every Christmas without asking

[Lightthatnevergoesout]

I have got a great relationship with both of DH's divorced parents. We get along fine and I love it when they come over. However, DH's relationship with his dad has always been really cold and all they talk about is grandchildren (our kids) and sports. It becomes even more obvious when they can spend hours sitting next to one another on a sofa without having any deep conversations. I end up constantly coming up with the topics to talk about.

Every single winter my father in law comes over and stays in a flat in a house next to us every Christmas. He hasn't got any interests of his own so comes to simply follow whatever we are doing. For example he would often come over to our house at 7 am and leave at 22.30 to sleep in his accommodation. During the day he would stay in the living room the whole day expecting for us to have some kind of plans every single day.

Christmas break is the only break my DH gets from his job and because his father in law comes for these whole 2 weeks we often don't even get a chance to spend one on one time together. He is bad at babysitting kids ad he shouts and gets anxious if they misbehave and on the times we attempted to sneak out on a date he lost it with the kids.

We have politely hinted that we might have plans/friends over/a short booked trip but that really doesn't seem to change much as he would just come for 1 day less. DH gets really anxious prior to him coming but then again failed to say anything and now we are once again stuck with him coming for 14 full days which would mean us cooking every single day, cleaning, washing and planning activities . We feel often trapped in our house as he can knock on the door when we are still sleeping or stay till 23 when we both just want to spend time together !

AIBU To think that my husband should have talked to him earlier (he had whole year since last Christmas) and explained that it is too long for a visit and really doesnt leave us with any time to just sit in our pyjamas and relax the way we might want to?

Be clear and firm about the situation now before he has time to plan his two week stay!

Last year was particularly bad as my DH was quite sick with strep and needed antibiotics. It was just a few days before FIL was due to come so we were all tired but FIL insisted that he didn't care whether he was sick or contagious his holiday was happening anyway

But I bet you didn't say, FIL DH has strep so we need you to arrive four days later. I bet you hinted at what you wanted. And of course, not only is FIL not a mind-reader but if autistic then won't get hints anyway.

As someone else said, you can't change him, you have to change yourself.

You denied being foreign but said you had lived here since being a student which means you weren't here for your childhood. You may not like people making cultural assumptions but honestly it is very unusual for a British person to put up with this shit.

Best of luck being stronger dealing with this man.

Your FIL at sounds a bit like my DF. I just keep to small talk & bring a iPad with me & keep
visits to 4 days.

your DH & FIL sound quite similar in many respects. But I think you both could handle things differently.

who invited these people etc', 'this boy is ruining our day'. Which then led to a big argument between my DH and him in the evening

dont rise to this - just keep calm, smile & wave and walk away or deflect. No point arguing with him. Once he learns that this behaviour gets him ignored he might tone it down a bit.

could you this Xmas suggest that next week he just has Xmas week with you & the other week some other time? Break it up a bit?

I tried to arrange them 2 to spend time together so I can take a bath in my house or just go for a nap without answering questions 24/7. It doesn't happen.

Why do you have to concern yourself with 'arranging' them before you can take a bath or a nap? Just go and take a bath. Get up of the sofa and say to DH "I'm going to have a bath". If you feel the need you could add "keep an eye on the kids".
That's all there is to it.

You said earlier that 'I'm not that sort of person'. I suspect your problem is that you won't let yourself be 'that person' because it is utterly ingrained in you to be nice to everyone and put everyone else before yourself, to be polite and a good hostess and make sure everyone else is happy and comfortable. And you think that is a good way to behave.
This is not actually a good trait. It is not something to be proud of. You are setting your DC a bad example by being an over-passive doormat. Daughters will grow up copying your behaviour, or going to the other extreme, and sons will grow up expecting their wives/girlfriends to be totally submissive, passive, self-effacing and with no boundaries.

Learn how to sit in silence without feeling you have to make conversation. If they are both on phones, get your own phone out, or put the TV on.

One more thing - this business about 'is it safe to come in' the bathroom - it is difficult if there is only one toilet, so just say to everyone in a loud voice 'use the toilet now because I am going to take a bath for an hour and I won't be letting you in". Then keep the door locked. If FIL knocks, just say "no you can't come in, you'll have to wait."

If FIL has just contacted you saying he's coming to stay next door from 15th Dec 30 Dec you contact him back saying :

That's great but we're only available to host/see you from 24th Dec to 27 Dec and only between 10 am and 6 pm

Whats the problem with that?

I messaged about the dates and he agreed to change his booking and come for 2 days less.

You had a perfect opportunity to reduce his visit time down to a reasonable 7 days or less but he's still coming for 12 days! Surely he can change the booking for more than 2 days! You need to be clear and firm with him if this is to change. Don't leave it so late in the year to spell it out to him.

neveradullard · Today 19:54

I messaged about the dates and he agreed to change his booking and come for 2 days less.

You had a perfect opportunity to reduce his visit time down to a reasonable 7 days or less but he's still coming for 12 days! Surely he can change the booking for more than 2 days! You need to be clear and firm with him if this is to change. Don't leave it so late in the year to spell it out to him.

Well done OP, you got it reduced by two days for this year. I understand your difficulty and why you seem to be ignoring the advice - it's a lousy situation that you're doing your best to please everyone and are losing out yourself. Now use this year's success to whittle it down by another two days next year, and keep going til you've got it down to a week.

But you really need to address the bathroom thing - no matter how you feel, he needs to understand bathroom time is sacrosanct. Just shout out I'm in here, go away and wait your turn, or do as suggested and call out for everyone to use the loo now because you're having a bath and it won't be free for an hour. That is not being rude or disrespectful or spoiling anyone's fun, it's just being practical. Then have a nice soak wearing ear plugs, and ignore any knocking.

As I said before, good luck..

If he's already booked to come and there's no way of putting him off, I'd present him with a schedule for the two weeks with the blocks of time you are free to spend with him highlighted in green. None before 10am or after 8pm. Just mark the time before 10am "Slobbing in PJs, not entertaining guests" and a similar description of the time after 8pm. If you're planning days out with friends, mark that time as unavailable.

I absolutely don't like being defined as 'foreign' . I have got a British passport and don't define myself as being foreign. You say its unusual for a British person... but how do you even define a British person in a multicultural country?

I know many many ' British' people who put up with all sorts of things. I also know British people who kicked homeless Ukrainian refuges out who they applied to host because they couldn't 'put up' with them anymore.

My line of work is exactly working with cultural assumptions and how that actually creates boundaries between people. This situation is a common situation and can happen in any cultural set up. Me being a 'foreigner' has got nothing to do with that.

My DC's are their own people and I don't expect to be a perfect example to them. I am a living human being who tries her best and sometimes that doesn't work out and that's life. I don't want to be a role model/ example to my kids at all times. I am real about my flaws with them and other people's flaws and they love me for that. No 2 weeks at Christmas with their grandparent does not define how they will grow up you got carried away there. Perhaps it's something that happened in your own childhood and of course that's not a good thing to go through.

Thank you everyone for constructive advice. I took it on board and will try to change my attitude to him staying with us and my DH is on board to establish some boundaries.

I do find shocking though the language some people use on forums. Do you also go around calling any friend or any other woman a 'doormat' wherever they got a problem? Or predicting how their future kids would be screwed up because of that one situation ?

What a strange way to talk to each other but nevermind.

Only a rough outline
'Hi dad, thanks for you message, we hadn't realised it'd gotten that close to Christmas.
We'd like it if you could make some alterations to your booking please. My (dh) job has been really stressful this year and I/he needs a massive break at Christmas. So the most we can have you over is x days from x to y.
Also please can only pop round after 1pm as the mornings are needed for lie ins for us all. We're happy to cook dinner for you each day but might have to kick you out if we're having an early night. We realise these are big changes to our arrangements but hope that we can make this shorter time, a more quality family time. And as always the kids will look forward to seeing you very much. Op and Dh'

This is really good advice/suggestion but you appeared to ignore it because you and DH would prefer to go away really. But that's not going to happen is it as DH does not want FIL left alone

So compromise ..bite the bullet and send your version of the above

Parents are role models 24/7 for 365 days a year for ever.

And people with autism need clear, unambiguous simple instructions of how to behave. Stop hinting and just be clear about what time your FIL should come round and what time he needs to go back next door. And don’t be afraid to tell him that you enjoy doing certain things and not others and that your needs are for a nap and some alone time.
it is fine for your DH and FIL to sit on their devices and say nothing to anyone

This is the culture of mumsnet, OP. People post their problems, thinking maybe they’re the ones in the wrong. Then we mumsnetters wade in, like the delicate flowers we are, saying “Christ, what a shit situation, why the fuck are you putting up with that?”

I realise it can be confronting. But 99% of posters are coming from a good place. The other 1% are shit-stirrers who are best ignored.

I would absolutely tell a friend, in those words, yes, to 'stop being a bloody doormat' if she was in your shoes. It requires a certain set of circumstances though, and it would only be appropriate if she was, in fact, being a doormat. I'm sorry OP but this definitely fits the bill in my mind, it sounds like you and DH have got a bit of a plan in place going forward so I hope you end up having a nice Christmas after all, please don't be afraid to tell FIL if he's annoying you, you could always keep in the back of your mind 'what would Mumsnet do?' 😀

With regards to the kids, I think there is an element of truth behind what people are saying, the kids will be looking to you and DH to see how to behave in certain situations, but how that would "affect" them later in life (if at all?!) is really anyone's guess, I doubt many people would come out and actually say that to a friend in real life, it seems quite mean spirited to me personally.

I’ve skipped quite a bit.

But OP is in the wrong. She is chatting and fussing and excluding FIL from the family.

She is partly at fault, yes, but her DH and FIL also bear some blame. Unfortunately, the two men will probably just passively let the situation continue until OP puts her foot down.

Well done on it being 2 days less now.

I really do think you'll be able to change this around eventually.

You mentioned him him being 66 and still working? Is he planning to retire soon?

Others have mentioned him coming other times of the year.
Maybe 5 days in the spring and another 5 days in the Autumn.

He'll get to visit twice but you won't be overwhelmed with him there for 2 solid weeks every Christmas.

You mentioned his place not being suitable for children? Is it too small or messy?

Would it be suitable for a weekend visit like you all staying in an Airbnb and then visit with him over the 2 days.

I know you're feeling bad about it all but maybe this is a way to switch things around that benefits everyone and gives you more of a break and get your time back around Christmas.

Oh and lock for the bathroom door so he can't wander in!

OP, I have one suggestion to make. Say that as the children are getting bigger everyone likes a lie-in and not to come around before 9am. Similarly say in the evenings you like to have early nights over the holiday so 9am-9pm would really be best and if he could stick to those times it would be better. It’s just clawing back a little bit of each day to help you all relax a bit. I assume he can watch tv in the rented flat in the evenings?

if he could visit another time-I know, not ideal- but maybe a long weekend during the summer, or Easter, and then 5/6 days over Christmas that would split the time he comes, and make it easier to cope with? It might also give him something to look forward to in the middle of the year. I do sympathise with you, and totally understand you don’t want to be rude.

Bloody hell @Lightthatnevergoesout . I was picturing an 80 year old crotchety old man. He’s only 66!!! You could have decades of this if you don’t sort it out now.

While two days fewer is a start it’s a tiny gesture.

See it as a starting point for a negotiation. You’ll have him on Christmas Eve, Day and Boxing Day. Stick to that. Then he has to come down from his starting point of now 12 days.

As for his comments when you were out last time with your friends, your DH should have told him “Dad, you’re the one who got added to the group. We have a regular thing with X and Y and their kids. If you’re not happy, the bus stop / tube station/taxi rank is over there. Stop being so rude. These are our friends. I want them to stay our friends, even after you leave!”

Your DH needs to find his voice!

Who cares what important cultural work you do, OP? Obviously it didn't help you to be assertive enough to set simple boundaries with your own FIL and has set you become an unpaid entertainer and housemaid for two weeks a year. I studied and worked in the UK for several years and I've also seen "British" people put up with many things, but setting boundaries was never one of them. Please don't bring Ukrainians in to this issue?! Jesus!

Instead of fighting with strangers on the internet who only ask for relevant details (if you deny once again that cultural factors does not play a role in your situation then I will doubt that you actually work on any cultural context in your career) to offer you the best suggestions, why don't you stop being so defensive (such a waste of time, honestly) and take at a long, hard look at yourself on how you perceive your life vs what it actually is, in reality? One minute your FIL is the loveliest person in the world, next minute he has always gaslit his own son and have the worst relationship with him. Get your story right!

And all these furious defenses of yourself and your family and how you have it all in hand, it's a bit sad and concerning. Are you in this much denial every day of your life? When you come to a message board, at least come with the intention of listening to good advice when it is given. Don't waste your time and others' by constantly snapping back at posters on how you have got everything handled and nothing is interconnected. Issues like this are never in isolation. Chronic avoidance and fear of setting boundaries often have deep rooted reasons.

Lol, I was thinking the same thing 😂

Seriously just say you'll only be there for 3 days as you're away with friends/other family/have others visiting. If there is any resistance to this be blunt and say it's too much

I've also seen "British" people put up with many things, but not setting boundaries with guests who make them uncomfortable in their own home was never one of them.

I've just caught up with your replies. This might be hard to hear so bear with

Your dh has a horrible relationship with his dad and you enable it to happen, by supplying this environment. I know you're doing your best by dh. But the kids see through this or they soon will. If he's a horrible person to your dh he shouldn't be in your house imo

Ask dh would he like to send a text to dad to uninvite him. Tell him you'll do it together. However if he wants him to come you'll no longer play piggy in the middle. You'll take a bath, see friends etc. let him choose and support him.

Don't take all your holidays at this time.
Set some boundaries.
No knocking on door until 9:00 am. Suggest the kids have breakfast with FIL at his accommodation every second day.
Go to work and take kids to child care or to see their friends etc.
Set up an activity or two that your FIL can potter along with ie vegie garden, trimming hedges, walking dog, writing on the backs of old family photos, oiling the deck, etc
Plan to have him baby sit for one night each week that he is there.
Invite friends over. Include FIL for meals.
Ask DH to plan an outing with his father to parks, hardware shops, museums etc. and to sometimes take the kids, sometimes not.
Ask DH to take him home an hour after dinner. Sometimes your husband could watch TV with him at his place or play cards. Other times not.
Plan to be away for one weekend. (and go away)