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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask if you’d work or stay home?

240 replies

StiffUpperNip · 06/10/2023 00:32

I am in my thirties, have two postgrad degrees and a career that I enjoy and in which I have invested a lot of time and passion. I recently (pre-baby) started working for myself/contracting. My day rate is £450. It’s unlikely that I will earn more than this in the near future.

DH earns about £200K a year (including bonus). This is likely to rise. He’s securely employed in a famously recession proof industry.

We have one DC. I am considering staying home until she starts school, as we don’t need my income. However, a quite large part of me feels like that would be a waste of my…I don’t know, mind? Prior efforts? Being a bad feminist? It’s also not going to help my fledgling consultancy at all. I was just gaining momentum.

Also, we want more DC. So, if I stayed home with each of them, that’s a pretty solid chunk of time.

On the flipside, I recognise that the opportunity to spend this time with DC is a privilege and that I might regret it if I don’t.

DH is completely unfussed, either way. I think he might have a very slight preference I stay home, but nothing pronounced.

What would you do?

OP posts:
arintingly · 07/10/2023 10:01

Loopytiles · 07/10/2023 09:35

I think that OP’s statement that being AH wouldn’t be about ‘chores’ is naive. Few male ‘sole breadwinner’ men seem willing to do much domestic work or weekday parenting.

And the risk of power imbalance is high.

I know one heterosexual couple, who are very much a team and the man does loads and has good attitude on equality etc. But many more when the man does bugger all domestic stuff and has the full ‘facilitated man’ attitude.

I kind of agree and it also sets alarm bells ringing for me when a man has a preference for his wife staying at home as the OP does. As usually that means he is keen to opt out of domestic labour

LaurieStrode · 07/10/2023 10:23

HeddaGarbled · 06/10/2023 01:26

It’s just that guys who earn that sort of money tend to start treating you like staff if you don’t have any independence from them. Maybe a year or so, you might get away with it, if he’s not a total dick, but you just watch that power imbalance kick in.

This.

It's dangerous on several levels to be a dependent adult.

Original poster
StiffUpperNip · 07/10/2023 12:46

Hello, everyone! This has been a fantastically helpful and positive thread. Lots to think about.

I can’t respond to you all individually, so I just wanted to say that I’ve read every post and really appreciate you taking the time to comment. Thank you very much. MN is great.

OP posts:
Jacqueline1970 · 07/10/2023 16:50

You've already received so many replies that your head must be spinning! Obviously you are the only one who can make the decision but it sounds like it might be beneficial for you to work part time at some point before your child reaches school age. Given the financial situation you are in you could easily afford to employ a Nanny to look after your baby and use that time to work or do something else that fulfills you. And the Nanny could do the things that you don't enjoy such as taking your daughter to baby groups etc. Also, if you are working from home, it gives you the opportunity to be there to spend smaller chunks of time with your baby during the day if you feel the need. At this age the novelty of having a newborn has worn off and the early survival mode months are over with so it can be boring to some mothers. Toddlerhood is much more engaging and interesting generally but also comes with its own unique challenges. Being at home full time with a baby is often so hard as we are not designed to parent in this way, it's a social construct which is so far removed from our tribal origins that it's no wonder some mothers become depressed. So my advice would be to try to find your tribe, wherever that is and in whatever form. If you feel that you would be happier working than not then do that too. You have lots of choices right now so it's a case of working out what is best for your family and looking at ways to make that happen. And what is right now may be different in the future as your baby gets older and if you do have more children. Just one thing about feminism as you mentioned it. I believe that the feminist movement was about women having choices over how to live their lives. It wasn't about making all mothers work outside the home when they have children. Do if you do choose to be a full time mum you certainly won't be letting anyone down. Good luck with your decision.

Nina1013 · 07/10/2023 17:50

HeddaGarbled · 06/10/2023 01:26

It’s just that guys who earn that sort of money tend to start treating you like staff if you don’t have any independence from them. Maybe a year or so, you might get away with it, if he’s not a total dick, but you just watch that power imbalance kick in.

Sorry, what? My husband earns ‘that kind of money’ and doesn’t treat me (or anyone else!!) like staff. He is wholeheartedly the kindest, happiest and most lovely man I have ever met. He just works in a well paid industry.

I find your comment hideously insulting.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/10/2023 17:55

Jacqueline1970 · 07/10/2023 16:50

You've already received so many replies that your head must be spinning! Obviously you are the only one who can make the decision but it sounds like it might be beneficial for you to work part time at some point before your child reaches school age. Given the financial situation you are in you could easily afford to employ a Nanny to look after your baby and use that time to work or do something else that fulfills you. And the Nanny could do the things that you don't enjoy such as taking your daughter to baby groups etc. Also, if you are working from home, it gives you the opportunity to be there to spend smaller chunks of time with your baby during the day if you feel the need. At this age the novelty of having a newborn has worn off and the early survival mode months are over with so it can be boring to some mothers. Toddlerhood is much more engaging and interesting generally but also comes with its own unique challenges. Being at home full time with a baby is often so hard as we are not designed to parent in this way, it's a social construct which is so far removed from our tribal origins that it's no wonder some mothers become depressed. So my advice would be to try to find your tribe, wherever that is and in whatever form. If you feel that you would be happier working than not then do that too. You have lots of choices right now so it's a case of working out what is best for your family and looking at ways to make that happen. And what is right now may be different in the future as your baby gets older and if you do have more children. Just one thing about feminism as you mentioned it. I believe that the feminist movement was about women having choices over how to live their lives. It wasn't about making all mothers work outside the home when they have children. Do if you do choose to be a full time mum you certainly won't be letting anyone down. Good luck with your decision.

All mothers are full time mothers. I really hate ''full time mum'' like if you are a working mother, it somehow means you're only a part time mum.

Nina1013 · 07/10/2023 17:57

OP, it sounds like you have a lovely healthy relationship and are financially protected either way - you sound like a great team.

Do whatever makes YOU happy - use maternity as a trial run, then make a decision?

I enjoy working, but my children are older.

Hayliebells · 07/10/2023 18:35

I'd work part time. I think your idea of working two days a week is an excellent idea.

Gmary20 · 07/10/2023 19:18

Why is staying home to prioritise raising your children being a bad feminist? This idea that women partacing in traditional female roles makes them a bad feminist or less worthy than men, is in my opinion as anti feminist as you can get. Raising children and creating a home is just as important as making money, and to think less of the tradition women's role is to have a lesser opinion of femininity over masculinity. Do what your biological instinct is telling you and raise your child, it doesn't make you worth less than a man to do so.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/10/2023 19:46

Gmary20 · 07/10/2023 19:18

Why is staying home to prioritise raising your children being a bad feminist? This idea that women partacing in traditional female roles makes them a bad feminist or less worthy than men, is in my opinion as anti feminist as you can get. Raising children and creating a home is just as important as making money, and to think less of the tradition women's role is to have a lesser opinion of femininity over masculinity. Do what your biological instinct is telling you and raise your child, it doesn't make you worth less than a man to do so.

Edited

It isn't a feminist choice because it contributes to inequality.

Parents who work also raise their children.

Jacqueline1970 · 07/10/2023 20:13

Sorry I didn't mean to offend anyone with the incorrect terminology. There was an organisation that I used to follow called 'full time mothers' who did eventually change their name to 'mothers at home matter' as they didn't want to alienate anyone but I remember that they found it very difficult to find a term that was fully inclusive. I personally dislike the term Stay At Home Mum because mothers often spend a lot of time outside the home with their children. It's the same as saying working/non working mothers as all mothers are working mothers. There is probably never going to be a term that everyone is happy with, but I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone.

G5000 · 07/10/2023 20:55

Do what your biological instinct is telling you and raise your child

OPs instict tells her she's bored and unfulfilled.

Okaaaay · 07/10/2023 22:40

Definitely work - but limited - probably 3 X 7 hour days and charge accordingly. For so many reasons. I wouldn’t worry if you have 18 months off and then start, but go back, when you reasonably can, and smash what you’re clearly doing fabulously at!

FarmGirl78 · 07/10/2023 23:11

StiffUpperNip · 06/10/2023 00:44

When did you start enjoying it, if you don’t mind me asking? As that’s another factor. DD is only tiny (20 weeks) and while she’s obviously delightful, quite a lot of the day is pretty boring.

The advice is always to get ‘out and about’, but I’m not an ‘out and about’ person. I’m a sit and quietly think sort of person. I’ll do the out and about stuff, as it’s good for her. But, I’m a bit worried I’m not enjoying this all as much as I ought to be.

Show quote history

Who's advice is to get "out and about"? Fuck that shit. Just as good to stay home and spend quality time with your baby learning by messy food play, hand painting, building blocks, watching Numberblocks, so much stuff you can do at home. You do what you enjoy and baby will learn to enjoy it too. No point taking her out constantly if you're not at your best in those circumstances. You do you. Go out as and when there's something worth going out for.

My SiL took baby out constantly. Sealife Centre must have been once a fortnight (with a baby so small she didn't even know what was going on) if not weekly. Trips here, trips there. Shopping malls. Farms. Zoos. Every single day was another attraction with another Mum friend. Which was great.....but.....it got a point where SiL couldn't cope being home alone with baby, just the two of them got her panicky, and she had really poor skills in 1on1 time and couldn't keep baby occupied; because for the whole of the first year there was something happening there in front of them, some attraction to keep baby entertained. And when it came to her trying to do that alone it just wasn't happening.

Don't listen to what "they" say, do what brings out the best of you (plural).

Yazo · 07/10/2023 23:17

"a quite large part of me feels like that would be a waste of my…I don’t know, mind? Prior efforts? Being a bad feminist?"

Not at all, I find it a slightly tedious narrative, you're with your child, your mind is still your mind. I was off for 5 years although couldn't help myself with a few projects on the go, but I absolutely loved it. I work full time now but that time with this kids was amazing and had two close together for that reason. I was an out and about person and friendships, being part of a community and seeing the 'world' with my kids was what I loved about it. If you're bored then go back to work but it doesn't make your mind or feminist credentials superior.

Yazo · 07/10/2023 23:22

@SouthLondonMum22 but does paying to work do anything for equality? Surely it's the definition of inequality that women with young children work all day, already likely to face discrimination and lower pay, also work and have no money at the end of the day after childcare. I took 5 years out of the workplace and know I did far more for women in my community volunteering, retraining than anyone would have benefitted from me in the workplace. The world of playgroups and preschool activities is such a female space, there is a lot of opportunity there and a lot of empowerment, its sad that people think otherwise.

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/10/2023 23:43

Yazo · 07/10/2023 23:22

@SouthLondonMum22 but does paying to work do anything for equality? Surely it's the definition of inequality that women with young children work all day, already likely to face discrimination and lower pay, also work and have no money at the end of the day after childcare. I took 5 years out of the workplace and know I did far more for women in my community volunteering, retraining than anyone would have benefitted from me in the workplace. The world of playgroups and preschool activities is such a female space, there is a lot of opportunity there and a lot of empowerment, its sad that people think otherwise.

Why are women the only ones responsible for paying for childcare unless they are single parents? DH and I pay half of the childcare, he's just as responsible for paying for it as I am.

The fact that you describe playgroups and preschool activities as female spaces is just another example of the inequality.

Bature · 07/10/2023 23:46

SouthLondonMum22 · 07/10/2023 23:43

Why are women the only ones responsible for paying for childcare unless they are single parents? DH and I pay half of the childcare, he's just as responsible for paying for it as I am.

The fact that you describe playgroups and preschool activities as female spaces is just another example of the inequality.

Show quote history

Surely it's the definition of inequality that women with young children work all day, already likely to face discrimination and lower pay, also work and have no money at the end of the day after childcare.

On £450 a day?! That’s over £100k per annum, FT. About thrice the national average.

Bature · 07/10/2023 23:48

Apologies, @SouthLondonMum22 Last comment was to @Yazo

Yazo · 07/10/2023 23:54

@Bature well yes, this woman can afford her childcare. I just get annoyed when people think they're a heroic feminist for going to work and women at home are just mindless 'wives'

bakedbrain · 08/10/2023 00:16

@SouthLondonMum22 imo distinction has to be made between homogeneity and inequality - oftentimes they can be mutual indicators, other times they're conflated

Jem123456789 · 08/10/2023 00:17

I had a similar issue in that I was also freelance only for 12 months or so before my first DC. I took only 4 months maternity and went back to work but only 3 days a week. Had my 2nd child two and a half years later and had a longer maternity leave then when my business was more established. As you’re on a day rate (as I was) I assume you could do the same? I stayed 3 days a week until both were at school full time but made sure my days were shorter so I could take them and pick them up. Worked out fine! I Did have help with a cleaner, ironing lady etc too so I could pour everything into work when they were at school and after school was my time with them and my career didn’t suffer too much. Plus I always want my own money!

SouthLondonMum22 · 08/10/2023 00:24

Yazo · 07/10/2023 23:54

@Bature well yes, this woman can afford her childcare. I just get annoyed when people think they're a heroic feminist for going to work and women at home are just mindless 'wives'

Why is it just her childcare? Wouldn't it also be her husband's childcare too? Again, why would only the woman be paying for it?

I didn't say anything about heroic feminists or mindless wives, just that it contributes to inequality which it absolutely does.

Yazo · 08/10/2023 00:45

In most couples that need childcare men earn more and childcare costs outweigh the financial benefit of the second income. Not to mention the 50,000 mothers each year forced out of the workplace by discrimination and the financial barriers to them returning to work. This doesn't apply to all couples but it's not helpful to equality to say this has the same effect on men and women because it doesn't, and it's not because of linguistics or perception but structural inequality.

SouthLondonMum22 · 08/10/2023 00:55

Yazo · 08/10/2023 00:45

In most couples that need childcare men earn more and childcare costs outweigh the financial benefit of the second income. Not to mention the 50,000 mothers each year forced out of the workplace by discrimination and the financial barriers to them returning to work. This doesn't apply to all couples but it's not helpful to equality to say this has the same effect on men and women because it doesn't, and it's not because of linguistics or perception but structural inequality.

I think it can often be a shortsighted way of looking at it, especially if the woman has opportunities to progress because the most expensive childcare costs are temporary because they don't need full time childcare for a long time. Potential loss of future income isn't usually considered either.

It also ignores the fact that working can have more benefits than just financial gain, it isn't the only reason to work.

The answer to discrimination against women in the workplace isn't for women to opt out of the workplace.