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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this wasn’t ‘a joke’? Would you do anything about it?

194 replies

Okkf · 04/10/2023 09:05

Had a return to work catch up this morning with the team (7 of us). I come back from maternity leave next Monday. One of the senior men stayed on longer to talk about a specific thing. Just before he logged out he said well I better get back to work, your holiday won’t pay for itself! And laughed. I feel really weird about it. He is a bit of a joker and no doubt he would say it was a joke but I feel angry about it. Weirdly only minutes before he had been saying how hard it was being a stay at home parent?! Am I being sensitive as I’m back to work after 7 months off?

OP posts:
Frabbits · 04/10/2023 14:33

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 14:25

But why should people be able to joke about it? It’s insulting and just screams misogyny. Letting it go just allows these opinions to exist.

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...because it's just a joke? Like lots of things, getting worked up about daft shit like this is just a complete waste of energy.

People make stupid jokes all the time about all kinds of stuff. Running to HR every time must get very tedious.

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 14:39

CharlotteBog · 04/10/2023 14:10

Sorry my reply didn't come out properly (don't see the Edit function either).

I meant to say:

Mat leave: a period of absence from work granted to a mother before and after the birth of her child.

Holiday: an extended period of leisure and recreation, especially one spent away from home or in travelling.

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and maternity leave is not a period of leisure and recreation because...?😂

CharlotteBog · 04/10/2023 15:01

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 14:39

and maternity leave is not a period of leisure and recreation because...?😂

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You are welcome to consider mat leave the same as a holiday. Clearly most people (including HR depts and policy makers) disagree otherwise there would be no distinction.

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:03

CharlotteBog · 04/10/2023 15:01

You are welcome to consider mat leave the same as a holiday. Clearly most people (including HR depts and policy makers) disagree otherwise there would be no distinction.

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I wasn't talking about the legal side of things... did you really believe I was?

SalmonBelongInTheWater · 04/10/2023 15:07

I would just have responded in the moment with a blank face and a 'holiday? I haven't been on any holidays, are you thinking of someone else? and let him explain himself and his stupid 'joke'. The moment has passed now though so I would leave it unless something else is said.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 04/10/2023 15:16

A lot of posters seem to be telling you that its just a joke, don't get worked up etc.. But as others have pointed out. He waited to land that stinger until everyone else had gone.

I do feel for you. Returnings never easy with all the 100 and one arrangements you have to make, and Your post made me remember my own return to work after maternity leave and having my boss introducing me to 2 new male employees within half an hour, with a very similar comment and actually asking them if they'd like months of paid holiday too. He also had a wife who had benefitted from maternity leave.
It was horrible and undermining and made me feel just dreadful. And in his case it WAS absolutely intentional. It made me feel so mad that this kind of stupid crap talk is still going on and seen as harmless. I had the same sh*t when I was off for a week when my baby was in hospital, from a male colleague who was then off himself for six weeks with a ski injury.

So yeah, maybe it was a one-off harmless "joke" but FFS haven't we moved any further forward in 20 years?

I agree with @Ramalangadingdong suggestion of emailing it to a friend to leave a paper trail and have some good phrases lined up if he dares to do it again.

Then hopefully this is a one off and you can put it to the back of your mind, move on and forget it and focus on yourself instead of this moron.

Don't let this get to you. It's a benefit you are entitled to, enshrined in law for very good reasons!

AuroraForever · 04/10/2023 15:19

So what did you say when he said it? I’d have said ‘fucking holiday? You’re joking aren’t ya?’ or ‘your missus think maternity was a holiday too did she?’ or ‘you obviously haven’t got kids then’ or something to that effect. Too many people just sit there, take it, then stew on it for evermore becoming more offended after the event when it’s too late.

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:19

But as others have pointed out. He waited to land that stinger until everyone else had gone.

or maybe he said it when HE was actually leaving, which made a bit more sense than randomly blurting it out in the middle of a meeting?
You might not agree with a shit joke, but surely you can understand the context when it was said?

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:21

AuroraForever · 04/10/2023 15:19

So what did you say when he said it? I’d have said ‘fucking holiday? You’re joking aren’t ya?’ or ‘your missus think maternity was a holiday too did she?’ or ‘you obviously haven’t got kids then’ or something to that effect. Too many people just sit there, take it, then stew on it for evermore becoming more offended after the event when it’s too late.

and if he replies that his wife loved it, his own paternity leave was a lovely holiday, you say what then? 😂

CharlotteBog · 04/10/2023 15:21

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:03

I wasn't talking about the legal side of things... did you really believe I was?

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Not in the slightest. I don't understand your point.
You think mat leave is like a holiday. I (and many others) disagree.
Do you have anything else to contribute to the discussion?

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:26

Frabbits · 04/10/2023 14:33

...because it's just a joke? Like lots of things, getting worked up about daft shit like this is just a complete waste of energy.

People make stupid jokes all the time about all kinds of stuff. Running to HR every time must get very tedious.

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So would you be ok if someone made a racist joke? Because it’s just a joke so why get worked up about it? I imagine not. This sort of ingrained misogyny needs to stop. Reading this thread is so depressing.

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:32

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:26

So would you be ok if someone made a racist joke? Because it’s just a joke so why get worked up about it? I imagine not. This sort of ingrained misogyny needs to stop. Reading this thread is so depressing.

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You can't compare 2 things that have nothing to do with each other.

Many women take their maternity leave as a holiday, it's a fact. There were even petitions going around at the time of the lockdown because some mums felt they missed out and didn't get a proper maternity leave.

It's not funny, it's not original, but it's not offensive, people make jokes about maternity leave = holiday. They make the same jokes about paternity leave.

Why the need to be offended?

OhamIreally · 04/10/2023 15:37

I never wipe shitty arses and spend my time sleep deprived on holiday. Would want my money back.

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:39

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:32

You can't compare 2 things that have nothing to do with each other.

Many women take their maternity leave as a holiday, it's a fact. There were even petitions going around at the time of the lockdown because some mums felt they missed out and didn't get a proper maternity leave.

It's not funny, it's not original, but it's not offensive, people make jokes about maternity leave = holiday. They make the same jokes about paternity leave.

Why the need to be offended?

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It is offensive, it is misogynistic, something you seem to be ignoring. Or maybe you’re okay with that, I don’t know.

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:40

And who takes their maternity leave as a holiday? You’re looking after a child that HAS to be looked after by someone. Comments like this damage women in the workplace, and I’m personally not okay with that.

DoItAgainPlz · 04/10/2023 15:41

MasterBeth · 04/10/2023 13:11

It's a shit nothing joke, but also it's thoughtless everyday sexism. I would call him out on it, in an appropriate way.

I am in my 50s. Sometimes my younger colleagues have made weak jokes about how old I am. I let them know they're being both sexist and ageist.

You sound like fun.

Vriddle · 04/10/2023 15:43

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 15:32

You can't compare 2 things that have nothing to do with each other.

Many women take their maternity leave as a holiday, it's a fact. There were even petitions going around at the time of the lockdown because some mums felt they missed out and didn't get a proper maternity leave.

It's not funny, it's not original, but it's not offensive, people make jokes about maternity leave = holiday. They make the same jokes about paternity leave.

Why the need to be offended?

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You can't compare racist 'jokes' to misogynist 'jokes'? Why wouldn't you? They are both offensive and used to discriminate.

And many women take their maternity leave as holiday... so, they didn't have a baby, just faked it and took 6 months off. That's what you think happens?

Or do you mean that having a baby is so damn easy that women are really - let's be honest amongst ourselves - just on holiday.

Wtaf.

Lavender14 · 04/10/2023 15:44

I wouldn't do anything about it personally but it's a tired and misogynistic 'joke' to make..

I'd have something witty to reply with if he brings it up again so you can shoot it back and challenge him straight away. These things are best nipped in the bud at the time.

Frabbits · 04/10/2023 15:48

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:26

So would you be ok if someone made a racist joke? Because it’s just a joke so why get worked up about it? I imagine not. This sort of ingrained misogyny needs to stop. Reading this thread is so depressing.

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No, obviously I wouldn't but it's clearly not the same thing to anyone who isn't trying to construct a massive, massive strawman.

It's just a stupid joke that people have made since maternity leave was invented. It's not offensive in any way whatsoever.

And if it makes you feel any better, my OH got the same joke when he was on paternity leave.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/10/2023 15:49

no doubt he would say it was a joke

Probably because it was obviously a joke. It's rude to take offence when it isn't being offered.

ColleenDonaghy · 04/10/2023 15:54

Depressing but not surprising that so many can't see this for the misogynistic joke it is.

Finding myself quite envious of those who found mat leave a holiday, I've never known anything less like a holiday! Grin

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:54

Frabbits · 04/10/2023 15:48

No, obviously I wouldn't but it's clearly not the same thing to anyone who isn't trying to construct a massive, massive strawman.

It's just a stupid joke that people have made since maternity leave was invented. It's not offensive in any way whatsoever.

And if it makes you feel any better, my OH got the same joke when he was on paternity leave.

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It is offensive and no that doesn’t make me feel better. These attitudes need to change!! Quite honestly your views are dated and are in line with what my parents would say.

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 16:01

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 15:40

And who takes their maternity leave as a holiday? You’re looking after a child that HAS to be looked after by someone. Comments like this damage women in the workplace, and I’m personally not okay with that.

lots of us?

Aside from the physical need for recovery after birth/ surgery, breast feeding and so on, looking after your child is not exactly a chore. Maternity leave is important on so many levels, but it's not prison.

If you have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the office to go on maternity leave, you really should not have a child in the first place.

Being paid to spend time with your kids is a holiday for most of us, mother or father.

Frabbits · 04/10/2023 16:01

Calling maternity/paternity leave a holiday as a joke is really about as mild as it gets.

If you get offended at that your life must be really troublesome from day to day.

Bubblebright · 04/10/2023 16:05

EaudeJavel · 04/10/2023 16:01

lots of us?

Aside from the physical need for recovery after birth/ surgery, breast feeding and so on, looking after your child is not exactly a chore. Maternity leave is important on so many levels, but it's not prison.

If you have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the office to go on maternity leave, you really should not have a child in the first place.

Being paid to spend time with your kids is a holiday for most of us, mother or father.

Edited
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Yes but it’s still not a holiday. It’s a necessity that should be respected for what it is, not mocked. Can you really not see how damaging it is to call it that? It belittles (mostly) women, and makes it even harder for women to get ahead in the workplace. I’m realizing those of you who think it is ok and just a harmless joke are perhaps missing the bigger picture.