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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this shouldn't result in a prison sentence

211 replies

Codie22345 · 02/10/2023 18:16

I've read that idiot who showed the picture of that poor little boy at the football match is facing jail. Showing that picture was incredibly cruel, nasty, spiteful and many other things. That poor boy suffered with cancer and his family lost him so young.
However I do not believe this man should go to jail for showing the image. He rightfully deserves to be named and shamed, cautioned, possibly banned from future matches. But I don't understand why he should be going to prison over it.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 02/10/2023 21:41

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/10/2023 21:38

I mean, I've posted the actual Law and the sentencing guidelines for the offence he has committed - I'm not sure what else they need, because they aren't going to set a legal precedent on the basis of 'Well, I don't think it was that bad, really'.

He's done it, he's admitted it (not that he could really have denied it, but his legal counsel would have pointed out that they can't act for him if he lied to them and he would get some 'credit' for making his plea at the earliest opportunity) and the Law has provided that in those circumstances, those would be the appropriate sentences.

I’m really sorry to ask, rather than search the thread, but what was the offence charged and the indictment/information?

Againstmachine · 02/10/2023 21:42

Forgotmylogindetails · 02/10/2023 21:37

@Againstmachine dramatic.

No really knuckle draggers have attacked people before with mistaken identity, but hey that's fine to you innocent people getting attacked.

Guess what I live nearby I'm seeing innocents with same name getting shit.

DisforDarkChocolate · 02/10/2023 21:43

Why do people in hospices need to be used to rehabilitate dross like this?

He was acting in a way designed to create trouble, he's scum.

Againstmachine · 02/10/2023 21:43

NeedTheSeaside · 02/10/2023 21:40

@Alargeoneplease89

he's declared he don't give a fk and shows no remorse. I hope fellow Sheffieldians give him what he deserves

me too! Then we won't have to worry about the cost going forward

Case in point mob violence well done you, it make you feel better.

charlotte361 · 02/10/2023 21:45

I think its a slippery slope when ' being mean' is a criminal offence.

Mojodojocasahaus · 02/10/2023 21:49

Againstmachine · 02/10/2023 21:21

I live locally and have sent it all including people with same name getting dragged into it thats why I disagree with mobs as they are usually run by a similar moron to ones they are attacking.

I suspect you might have seen his brothers name (he was stood next to him)

I know what you mean though - just through the comments on the news stories I learned - his name, his brothers name, where he lived, his girlfriends name, the instagram account for his house renovation, the Sunday league team he played for, his job, the company his brother worked for and his phone number!

It’s horrendous.

itsaquarterafterone · 02/10/2023 21:49

charlotte361 · 02/10/2023 21:45

I think its a slippery slope when ' being mean' is a criminal offence.

He was trying to provoke football supporters on the opposing team by using something that he knew would make them very angry as it was an emotional subject.

As PP have said it could have caused a riot.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 02/10/2023 21:50

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 02/10/2023 21:41

I’m really sorry to ask, rather than search the thread, but what was the offence charged and the indictment/information?

An offence under Section 4a of the Public Order Act 1994, causing intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

Fear or provocation of violence.

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a)uses towards another person threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or

(b)distributes or displays to another person any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
with intent to cause that person to believe that immediate unlawful violence will be used against him or another by any person, or to provoke the immediate use of unlawful violence by that person or another, or whereby that person is likely to believe that such violence will be used or it is likely that such violence will be provoked.
(2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is distributed or displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3)F1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both.

He did it at a football match, which is most definitely an attempt at provocation - and he's plead guilty because there was no way around it.

Sentencing guidelines from https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/disorderly-behaviour-with-intent-to-cause-harassment-alarm-or-distress-racially-or-religiously-aggravated-disorderly-behaviour-with-intent-to-cause-harassment-alarm-or-distress/

A – High culpability:

  • Targeting of individual(s) by a group
  • Sustained incident
  • Use of substantial force
  • Substantial disturbance
  • Production of weapon
  • Missiles thrown

B – Lesser culpability

All other cases

Harm

The court should consider the factors set out below to determine the level of harm that has been caused or was intended to be caused to the victim.

Category 1

  • Serious distress or alarm caused
  • Distress or alarm caused to multiple persons present

Category 2

  • All other cases

Well, there's definitely Category 1 Harm caused.

Then there's the starting point for sentencing.

If it's deemed a B/Category 1, that's between a Low level community order and a 12 week custodial sentence and a category C fine.

Fine Band C starting point is 150% of relevant weekly income but will vary between 125 – 175% of relevant weekly income.

Community Order (if he squeaks under the custodial level)

Offences only just fall below the custody threshold or the custody threshold is crossed but a community order is more appropriate in the circumstances. More intensive sentences which combine two or more requirements may be appropriate

  • Suitable requirements might include:Any appropriate rehabilitative requirement(s)
  • 150 – 300 hours of unpaid work
  • Curfew requirement for example up to 16 hours per day for 4 – 12 months**
  • Exclusion requirement lasting in the region of 12 months

Whether or not he's met the threshold for custodial sentencing is probably balancing upon

Appropriate punishment can only be achieved by immediate custody

...unless he's got previous for not complying with court orders (any pissed off exes in the mix, for example - or previous being a dick at football?)

Factors increasing seriousness (I've bolded the ones I think might apply)

Statutory aggravating factors:

  • Previous convictions, having regard to a) the nature of the offence to which the conviction relates and its relevance to the current offence; and b) the time that has elapsed since the conviction
  • Offence committed whilst on bail
  • Offence motivated by, or demonstrating hostility based on any of the following characteristics or presumed characteristics of the victim: disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

Other aggravating factors:

  • Planning
  • Offence committed against those working in the public sector or providing a service to the public
  • Leading role in group
  • Vulnerable persons or children present
  • Victim is targeted due to a vulnerability (or a perceived vulnerability) where not already taken into account in considering racial or religious aggravation
  • History of antagonising the victim
  • Victim(s) had no opportunity to escape situation (eg: offence occurred on public transport)
  • Commission of offence whilst under the influence of alcohol/drugs
  • Offence committed whilst on licence or post sentence supervision
  • Failure to comply with current court orders

It's not looking good for him - even if the OP thinks it's not worthy of the potential penalties.

Disorderly behaviour with intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress/ Racially or religiously aggravated disorderly behaviour with intent to cause harassment, alarm or distress – Sentencing

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/disorderly-behaviour-with-intent-to-cause-harassment-alarm-or-distress-racially-or-religiously-aggravated-disorderly-behaviour-with-intent-to-cause-harassment-alarm-or-distress

Againstmachine · 02/10/2023 21:51

Mojodojocasahaus · 02/10/2023 21:49

I suspect you might have seen his brothers name (he was stood next to him)

I know what you mean though - just through the comments on the news stories I learned - his name, his brothers name, where he lived, his girlfriends name, the instagram account for his house renovation, the Sunday league team he played for, his job, the company his brother worked for and his phone number!

It’s horrendous.

Yep and most of this information is irrelevant, it just give s the arseholes more power, and any threatening violence is more than likely no better than the idiots who did this.

AngryGreasedSantaCatcus · 02/10/2023 21:54

charlotte361 · 02/10/2023 21:45

I think its a slippery slope when ' being mean' is a criminal offence.

It's not just being mean. You need to consider the context and location. It could've started a massive fight or a riot. He wasn't in his backyard mouthing off where neighbours could hear him or messaging a mate.

WhileMyDishwasherGentlyWeeps · 02/10/2023 22:00

Thank you Mooncup. (Didn’t quote because your post is - helpfully - full and long.)

I must admit that I am bothered by the creep of public order offences. But I wouldn’t die in a ditch about this one.

sadaboutmycat · 02/10/2023 22:45

Saker · 02/10/2023 18:23

I agree with you OP, it would be more productive to make him do community service for a hospice or similar. Sending people to prison rarely achieves anything.

You'd want somebody like that working in a hospice?!
No thanks.
Proper punishment. Prison.

Dramatic · 02/10/2023 22:55

I would be absolutely fine with him going to prison. They can quite frankly give him whatever punishment they think of, absolutely despicable human being.

Dramatic · 02/10/2023 22:57

Mojodojocasahaus · 02/10/2023 21:49

I suspect you might have seen his brothers name (he was stood next to him)

I know what you mean though - just through the comments on the news stories I learned - his name, his brothers name, where he lived, his girlfriends name, the instagram account for his house renovation, the Sunday league team he played for, his job, the company his brother worked for and his phone number!

It’s horrendous.

If you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. Can't muster up any sympathy

Saschka · 02/10/2023 23:04

AreYouShittingMe · 02/10/2023 18:31

I agree @Codie22345. Not a custodial sentence. He needs to spend time in a children's hospice and listen to families who have lost loved ones to cancer, and to hear about what it feels like. He has a chance of learning something that way.

Why do grieving parents have to provide a Dickhead Rehabilitation service for this tosser?

I agreed he’s unlikely to see the inside of a cell, but having jail held over him should be motivation to stop behaving like such a twat.

BabyStopCryin · 02/10/2023 23:18

Maybe scraping roadkill off the motorways then.

RomaniIteDomum · 02/10/2023 23:28

Codie22345 · 02/10/2023 18:16

I've read that idiot who showed the picture of that poor little boy at the football match is facing jail. Showing that picture was incredibly cruel, nasty, spiteful and many other things. That poor boy suffered with cancer and his family lost him so young.
However I do not believe this man should go to jail for showing the image. He rightfully deserves to be named and shamed, cautioned, possibly banned from future matches. But I don't understand why he should be going to prison over it.

His punishment will likely depend on his criminal record.

Criminals may well get the jail if their record is long and analogous. And rightly so, because it would show that non-custodial sentences have had no effect.

Willyoujustbequiet · 02/10/2023 23:31

AreYouShittingMe · 02/10/2023 18:31

I agree @Codie22345. Not a custodial sentence. He needs to spend time in a children's hospice and listen to families who have lost loved ones to cancer, and to hear about what it feels like. He has a chance of learning something that way.

I admire this view but it's incredibly naive.

People like him don't give a shit and no amount of education will change that.

YorkshirePuddingsGreatestFan · 02/10/2023 23:38

It comes under new guidance to crack down on tragedy chanting. It's to stamp out football supporters chanting about disasters and other major incidents that cause loss of life, harm etc.

A Newcastle fan was recently charged with making a video mocking the Munich Air Disaster after they beat Man City.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66970561

St James' Park

Newcastle fan charged after mocking Munich air disaster

Police charge a man, 41, from North Shields after he reportedly mocked the Munich air disaster.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66970561

MarjorieStuartBaxter · 03/10/2023 00:29

He derserves everything he fucking gets, it's disgraceful some people are rotten to the core should imagine he'll get a few slaps in prison and karma down the line......

Iwantmyoldnameback · 03/10/2023 01:28

As he is unlikely to get a job in the foreseeable future I really don't fancy my taxes supporting him so I think we have found our first candidate for Rwanda. And his equally vacuous giggling brother can go with him.

slore · 03/10/2023 01:46

Kpo58 · 02/10/2023 18:21

Freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences. If we did this more often, maybe it would help lower the amount of hurtful trolls out there.

I am sick of this moronic phrase.

Freedom of speech should indeed mean that consequences are legally very limited.

It is not the place of the law to regulate "hurtful trolls". That is childish and utterly ridiculous. The police are overstretched and focus should be on real crime. Not hurty fee fees. Which as abhorrent as this is, is all it amounts to.

As this is targeted towards a grieving family, they should receive punishment as it is a form of harassment. But not prison. Community service and football bans are appropriate.

Ladyj84 · 03/10/2023 01:52

Using a dead child at a football ground to stir trouble sorry but that's horrendous

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