This is the Handmaids Tale in real-time

[Crapsummer2023]

If I were living in Texas, I’d start making moves to leave soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/28/texas-lawyer-abortion-ban-procedure-patient-information

the loving thing to do to someone in a burning house isn’t to tell them they’re fine and the house isn’t burning down.

That’s literally what forcing someone to give birth to a baby they don’t want is doing.

It’s to tell them your house is burning down and get them help.

Right. And if that’s an abortion because that’s the help they want - give it to them. Don’t given them your brand of help, that you deem to be suitable.

Look - there’s no point debating abortion with someone who doesn’t even have the physical equipment to ever need one.

We see just how people thought history people have been able to allow the death of others. German soldiers didn’t slaughter humans, Southern whites didn’t lynch humans, and abortions isn’t killing humans either.

Though it may appear to be human, it isn’t. It may look like it is made in the image of God, may look like an actual man, woman, or child — but it isn’t. Its color, disability, or lack of development betrays the fact that its only partially human. And as history repeatedly teaches: when “they” are not fully human, “they” — when their dignity inevitably conflicts with our interests — become not at all human.

However it says in Jeremiah 15 says Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

An argument often used against the pro life stance on abortion is “What about when the life of the mother is at risk?”

Dr. Landrum Shettles, a pioneer in the field of in vitro fertilization, wrote, “Less than 1 percent of all abortions are performed to save the mother’s life”

Over 1,000 OB-GYNs and maternal healthcare experts signed a statement in 2012, saying, in part, “As experienced practitioners and researchers in obstetrics and gynaecology, we affirm that direct abortion—the purposeful destruction of the unborn child—is not medically necessary to save the life of a woman”

in 2019, “medical leaders representing more than 30,000 doctors said intentionally killing a late-term unborn baby in an abortion is never necessary to save a mother’s life”

Well, that certainly explains how you’re so easily able to see women as not fully human.

‘Thanks’ for coming out and clarifying that in black and white for us.

@Babochan88 dude, when it comes to rights, what right have you to impose your religious beliefs on women? To dictate that we must give birth whether we want to or not, whether we even can or not? You sound like the sort who forces ten year old rape victims to give birth.

You’re also saying every woman on this thread and elsewhere who’s had an ectopic pregnancy, or any other deadly type, and all their doctors, is lying.

I believe all babies should have the right to be born because who knows the outcome?

In too many cases we know the outcome only too well. No-one seriously believes that, for instance, the outcome for a baby with severe brain damage is going to be good.

If the baby is born and unfortunately dies then yes it’s obviously very sad. I would also ask for pain relief so that the death wasn’t as agonising.

The reality is that pain relief for newborns, particularly really sick newborns, is going to precipitate their deaths anyway. Would you withhold it on that account?

And as history repeatedly teaches: when “they” are not fully human, “they” — when their dignity inevitably conflicts with our interests — become not at all human.

And as history repeatedly teaches: when women are not fully human, women - when their dignity (and safey) inevitably conflicts with our (often mens) interests - become not at all human

Thanks for the clarification

Using Jeremiah 15 to justify that no one can kill when it contains gems such as:

At midday I will bring a destroyer
against the mothers of their young men;
I will make their widows more numerous
I will bring bereavement and destruction on my people“
I will send four kinds of destroyers against them,” declares the Lord, “the sword to kill and the dogs to drag away and the birds and the wild animals to devour and destroy.
This is what the Lord says:
“‘Those destined for death, to death;
those for the sword, to the sword;
those for starvation, to starvation;
those for captivity, to captivity.’ (not in the correct order)

But how do you justify refusing to perform an abortion on a foetus that you know 100% will not survive when that refusal means you are condemning the mother to death?

Now no longer just foetuses we now rise to such boldness as to include the child staring us dead in the face outside of the womb.

However the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act, seeks to protect infants born after a botched abortion.

In other words, should the abortion get “botched,” the bill prevented the attempted the abortionist — after seeing the baby regrettably pass through the birth canal alive — from finishing the job.

the new bill states that anyone present would be legally obligated to protect the child and admit it into a hospital. Should anyone leave the baby to die on the table — after previously overseeing the first abortion attempt.

This article shares really great info on the topic of abortion. It’s not as painless as many believe it to be. Many people have asked how I could watch a child suffer, which is exactly what happens in some cases of abortion.

nice speaking with you all xx

I would believe the message is (based on this little gem):

Dr. Landrum Shettles, a pioneer in the field of in vitro fertilization, wrote, “Less than 1 percent of all abortions are performed to save the mother’s life”

That around 1.4 million women don't matter and can just die every year apparently

Women being disposable compared to babies who might be male of course

So is this a utilitarian argument, then? Because less than 1% of abortions are allegedly performed to save the mother's life, it's OK to let those mothers die when they could be saved?

No reputable doctor can claim that abortion is never necessary to save the life of a mother. You only have to look at Savita Halappanavar's case to see that that is manifestly not true.

Another scenario for you, @Babochan88. Should a 10 year old who is pregnant as a result of rape be forced to carry on with the pregnancy and give birth, even though that may cause irreparable damage to her mental and physical health? Does a Christian god really demand that sort of suffering from young girls?

@Passepartoute - he’s already said that yes, she should.

As I say, it’s pointless even having this discussion with someone who doesn’t have the physical equipment to even get pregnant.

It’s totally theoretical to them.

@Babochan88 Why is the foetus' potential life more important than the established life of the woman or girl being forced to give birth to it?

Oh, of course, as @Insommmmnia said, the foetus might be male, after all. Women and girls only exist to breed and raise males and if we fail at that, well, we were obviously defective anyway.

Because one day we will all have to give an account for everything we’ve done on Earth. I love you enough to speak truth.

I won't.

But even if you're right (you're not) if I had to account for myself I would expect God to be on the side of women, what with having created the world with women being the only ones able to produce life. I think she'd be pretty keen on women.

I've just spent some time in a more sensible place. A lovely mixture of animism and Buddhism. So much less vehemently anti-women.

I think it’s best I bow out here and stop replying to messages. For any other questions you have my answer is always that unborn babies are human and have the right to life.

For those that have had abortions, please know that you’re loved more than you could ever imagine by God. Whether you believe it or not he loves you an infinite amount. If you have a second shoot him up a prayer he’s always listening and desperate for you to speak to him - he’s your father who made you and watched over you from womb till now and absolutely delights in you.

If my posts have triggered and upset which I know they have…abortion is a tough topic…I apologise and genuinely wish peace for you.

always happy to speak to anyone over private messages but will stop posting on this thread now. I’m sure op and most of you are sick of me 😭😂

You’re funny!

If my posts have triggered and upset which I know they have…abortion is a tough topic…I apologise and genuinely wish peace for you.

The best apology is not to do it again. On behalf of the women I know who have variously had to have abortions because an ectopic would have killed them, the much-wanted baby was going to be born dead, they were in an abusive relationship and the only way to separate and never see the father again was to end the pregnancy... do not advocate to remove women's rights. By all means feel the way you do about your own body. Leave ours alone.

Christians should never judge anyone - That is condemning someone as bad awful etc.

So what is it when you call women who have had abortions "murderers"? That is ultimate judgyness

The Bible uses literal and figurative language

Translation: when it suits my narrative I insist on the badly translated misogynistic book. When it doesn't I twist the words and meanings until they do.

The astounding manly arrogance it takes to come on here and tell women they are worthless never ceases to stun me.

I'm with Mrs P Terry. The unforgiving god that I don't believe in, should she turn out to be real won't judge me harshly. My actions are more "Christian" than many actual "Christians"

The astounding manly arrogance it takes to come on here and tell women they are worthless never ceases to stun me.

’Twas ever thus.

We do see right through it, though.

For any other questions you have my answer is always that unborn babies are human and have the right to life.

As do women.

I think some folk here need some bible revision

Sorry to harp on but I wanted to come back yo this.

I believe people holding these views (everything Babochan88 posted in this thread) are terrible. And we must be protected from these views affecting us, the non-religious, those of other faiths, those not of this abhorrent, hypocritical fundie-"Christianity"

And to hitch a ride on the implication of infertility to try to get out of answering that question - what an utter piece of work.

I was asking because he is clearly a man, and that’s why the answer is ‘no’, he can’t get pregnant.