To intensely dislike Keir Starmer

[LemonyTicket]

I can't stand Tories.
The current Tories are the worst

But I still intensely dislike Keir Starmer and will probably vote Green.

I find him phony, with no vision, like a terrible 6th form prefect. And to be honest his whole front bench are dreadful. Wes Streeting nauseates me.

Is it just me?

It was another thread where the op talked about private users lacking principles.

Posting a lot higher equality but avoiding it personally feels at odds. And I wonder how people square political beliefs with their actions.

It’s a reasonable question, people can answer if it’s not too hard or they don’t get defensive.

Thank you @helford because you put it better than I could.

But @EasternStandard you might have to tolerate more complexity in people. For example, how I make my living is very Brexity. I am one of those buccaneers that was so desired, making my living in trade.

Pigeonholing people is useful for political activists but it is very poisonous for wider society. Were I to take this view there would be whole parts of my own family I could not talk to on ideological grounds. That would be to my detriment, theirs and would be silly.

I talk to loads of people from all sides. It’s something we love in my family in particular and we have great, wide ranging political debates

I’m probably one of the few posters who doesn’t berate Brexit voters on mn and have previously said calling people thick or bigoted is counterproductive (a nasty side that further puts me off)

Even with that there’s a few posters who post as pro Labour and wanting higher equality, and given the argument against private is that it entrenches inequality I have wondered how they square those political views with actions

I’m not attacking, I’m very pro both sectors as it goes, but you initially laughed at someone for being aspirational and having to take their dc out - which I thought unkind - and you also stated how you vote. So being a chat forum where it’s possible to do this, I asked

I never said the Tories were the answer. This is again; about the integrity of the individuals. The Tories are split on this with MPs such as Mariam Coates and Kemi Baedonoch campaigning for biological sex to be protected in law, then MPs such as Caroline Noakes actively working against them. Rosie Duffield from Labour is actually working with the Tory women who are trying to protect sex too as an FYI, this is transcending party politics.

So the situation needs better nuance, not just blue vs red.

This thread is about Starmer who thinks women can have a penis. Any party or MP who thinks this is an enemy of mine as far as I’m concerned. Especially if that MP is the leader of the party as this comes top down.

Without clarification around the definition of a woman in law, the issues you’ve outlined will become even more ignored and affect the most vulnerable women in our society.

@EasternStandard - I use private education. I have very little patience with people who believe erroneously that politics does not change or that privilege obtained by spending money is subject to an implicit rule is to be protected.

Not only is it naive, but the greater cruelty in my view is real poverty. People complaining that they may struggle to meet school fees is not a condition of poverty. Aspirational it is, but the condition of spending money to meet such aspirations is to strive. If you claim to take responsibility you are going to have to work harder.

This applies to anyone.

Ok so do you not think private education entrenches inequality or do you think it does but not mind when using it?

Pigeonholing people is useful for political activists but it is very poisonous for wider society. Were I to take this view there would be whole parts of my own family I could not talk to on ideological grounds. That would be to my detriment, theirs and would be silly.
Completely agree, it is actually quite a juvenile way of voting, no one party or one mp/leader will tick everything for you. Life is not that simple or linear. I also think that people should think about society as a whole and what they want that to look like. Sometimes that does mean voting in a way that may not benefit you directly but benefits society as a whole. Maybe that is a socialist way of looking at things but I do believe that a country is judged on how it treats its most vulnerable and the Tories from what I can see have really only been helping its most privileged. After reading the thread it does look like Tories will get in again, which is absolutely staggering from an outsiders perspective. I do not understand why people on this thread seem to hold Labour to such a high standard and seem to forgive the Tories for their complete mismanagement and chaos of the past 14 years. Definitely does feel like a case of Stockholm syndrome or better the devil you know.

I visit England annually to visit family and the country seems more and more in decline everytime I visit. I really don't think you can survive another term of Tories IMO. Best of luck

@EasternStandard - I think you may be attributing a greater commitment to equality to me than I have actually said.

But in any event, I do believe I can spend my money how I like. I do also believe in an element of redistributive tax.

That is what I think. And it is what I do. Now I have answered your questions. Clearly I am somewhat unusual to you, but ultimately private education is something I may choose. I have also used state education where it was of the quality I wanted.

I trust that suffices!

I’m sure people do use private and vote Labour but there’s a few on here who post a lot on both, especially the Labour part

So I would assume by volume they care a lot about those politics

Now you have answered the inequality of private isn’t that key for you

@EasternStandard - I have never denied it! Private education is a privilege. It is not "equal" (though guidance needed on what that actually means since I have no idea).

@EasternStandard but now you must return the courtesy I have displayed to you in responding.

My question is this; why should the Labour Party not tax private school fees?

I meant more that if you use it you are part of entrenching inequality

@EasternStandard - be clear, I've set out my stall and now I expect yours in return. That is a debate.

I think it an ill thought out policy similar to the Brexit bus.

Which stirs the emotions with little benefit. It is hard on the dc impacted who have to leave, or small prep schools that will close. It’s kicking a sector - that we do well here, for votes.

I’m much more aligned with Blair when it comes to this stuff. Although he had other issues (PPP a nightmare).

Someone suggested using falling student roll to bring down state class sizes. That is way more appealing to me

Okay. Personally I see some merit in the idea of a business being affected but many many children are affected in the state by defective funding of services. I accept your point but the latter concerns me. Private schools users mostly have broader shoulders ime

There won’t be much in it. After extra state schools placed are needed

I’m used to a system where the state removes extra strain via rebate

Of course that would be anathema here but I would have loved to see the opportunity of smaller state classes embraced. Rather than bumping up numbers with private parents using the place (that they paid for but didn’t use previously)

So the situation needs better nuance, not just blue vs red.

Yep, pretty much sums it up.

In terms of the school fees I’m in the rather strange position of moving a child into a private school due to RAAC and the state school being closed. So a hike in fees to me feels very unfair! But equally I’m fortunate I can.

That said private schools aren’t really charities, but this applies to many charities tbh.

Yes I'm sure people with their kids in private school are keen to not see a price hike. 🙄

Private schools aren't needed. They're just another way for kids of well off parents to gain yet another advantage.

Germany does not have private schools. Children excel, as they should, on merit

Wow you’re nice. My daughter has not been in school AT ALL this academic year. Private school may not be needed in Germany but I don’t live in Germany 🙄. I live in an area where the bog standard average comp she has been in for 3 years is literally falling down.

And a quick google tells me that in fact Germany does have private schools anyway…..

And a quick google tells me that in fact Germany does have private schools anyway…..

Only really for expats (eg: english language) or boarding school. Wealthy kids just go to the same school like everyone else

Wow you’re nice. My daughter has not been in school AT ALL this academic year. Private school may not be needed in Germany but I don’t live in Germany 🙄. I live in an area where the bog standard average comp she has been in for 3 years is literally falling down

That's because no one cares about state education because its only for plebs. The minute EVERYONE has to go to the same school, like MPs kids or CEOs kids, you'll be amazed how quickly schools won't be falling down.

I am so sorry about your dd. Must be a huge worry.

Yes and if our political leaders, from both Lab and Tory govts, primarily used the state sector, you can bet your last vat receipt that the state sector would be world class, RAAC would never have been used and your comp wouldn't be falling down.

Wealthy people didn't get rich by supporting tax or price hikes.

We only have to look at where most of our Olympic athletes come from, its the private sector, are the wealthy genetically gifted? or do their kids have access to facilities and coaching?

Why don't we demand more from our leaders instead of focusing on the relatively trivial issue of putting VAT on school fees.

We ve kids being taught maths and science by teachers with no teaching qualifications in these subject.... but VAT.... pls look at the bigger issues! a well educated workforce benefits us all, rich or poor.

Yabu. I’d vote for him