To intensely dislike Keir Starmer

[LemonyTicket]

I can't stand Tories.
The current Tories are the worst

But I still intensely dislike Keir Starmer and will probably vote Green.

I find him phony, with no vision, like a terrible 6th form prefect. And to be honest his whole front bench are dreadful. Wes Streeting nauseates me.

Is it just me?

There isn’t a leader among them. The only thing that labour have going for them is that they’re not the tories, and that’s really not enough.

I also think we need to be careful what we wish for. I have never and will never vote Tory, but labour are already hinting at cutting disability benefits further, labour are the creators and supporters of the ULEZ in the south east, which incidentally has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with making money.

They are very vague about any other policies, so we have no idea what they’re about to throw into the mix.

The reality is that in order to be in politics you have to lack integrity. And anyone who doesn’t just won’t make it.

Just to add, I have always voted Labour, even under Blair until Iraq, so will probably vote Green.

@Seaitoverthere couldn't agree more. To the point where I've left the UK

ULEZ was introduced by Johnson when he was mayor and has cross party support and is popular with the majority of Londoners, as shown by poll after poll.

It isn’t about making money, it’s about saving lives by reducing London’s illegal levels of pollution.

Tories have cut disability allowance, along with every other kind of benefit in real terms.

They have also trashed the economy, wasted billions on poorly executed infrastructure projects, vanity projects and giving contracts to unqualified mates.

They have also overseen a rise in VAWG and policies that have hurt us tremendously - it seems ludicrous to ignore that.

Labour do need clarity on their policies, but I assume this will come closer to the election. At the moment the best policy is to stand back as the Tories self-destruct.

As a PP pointed out, this ridiculous ‘personality politics’ will split the vote and let the Tories sneak in again for more damage.

It’s simple - do you want things to keep getting worse? If not, we need to vote out the Tories - and that means voting Labour - it’s not enough to ‘not vote Tory’.

Voting Green is the same as voting Tory. It splits the vote and will allow Tories to get in.

Me too. Over for me when he said women had a penis. When he first came in as leader, I thought he had potential. He's clearly very bright. But no. Nothing. What a waste.

He's not perfect but who is? This thread shows me how much power the gutter press has in this country, I fear the Tories will get back in and after that - carnage.

" The fit one from Duran Duran "

Exactly. Depressing thread. No wonder the Tories have been free for so long to enact the policies we have.

This might be interesting to y'all.
It doesn't paint Sir Kier in a great light, but gives hope for some sane politicians existing.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/13/keir-starmer-gender-politics-labour

I don't agree with @Bingbangbongbash about ULEZ at all. I too believe its all about money. If it really was about air quality the party would be doing loads of other things aswell, which they aren't.

The London news interviewed 15 people about it the other day. They nearly all want better air quality for their kids.

Don't we all luv! But do you honestly believe this is the best way, or making that much difference?

It's not a fear of trans women . It's a fear that a potential leader doesn't understand basic biology. Only guys have Ys. Pretty simply - XX woman, XY male!

find him much improved on current government. I normally vote Lib Dem and debating voting Labour under him. He just seems a decent man with a moral compass

Similar for me. Essentially I will vote tactically however is best to get a change of government.

But not over for you after years of Tory rule that’s seen rape & SA rise to highest ever levels, whilst convictions stand at less than 1%?

Not over for you when the Tories voted against Labour’s proposal to make misogyny a hate crime?

Not over for you after the Tories have failed, in over a decade, to make any dent in the gender pay gap, the cost or availability of childcare, cut budgets and stopped child-focussed initiatives like Sure Start?

Deeds are more important than semantics but if you are going to focus on them - despite Labour’s pledge to protect women only spaces - then at least get it right. Starmer said 99.99% of women don’t have a penis.

Is it really worth subjecting the country to more Tory rule of 0.01%? I don’t think so.

But it does show he was willing to change. Thats a good thing surely? One of the worst things about our political culture is hating on politicians for their stance on something then hating on them for responding to evidence, or the public, and changing their stance.

Yes I do.

At the local level, pollution from cars is a huge issue. Brakes, tyre contact and exhaust emissions are a massive contributor to poor air quality.

Your argument is they aren’t doing enough so they shouldn’t do anything? That doesn’t make sense to me.

Perhaps you can tell me what else they should be doing? As well as ULEZ, there has been an expansion of LTNs, initiatives to encourage more active transport and use of public transport.

The mayor has also given every primary kid in London free school meals this year to help families bear the cost of living crisis - so he’s spending money not hoarding it.

I completely agree.

I think the problem is that the public is so used to the loud blustering of people like Boris, that anyone who is quietly confident and reasonable may seem "uncharismatic". If you're not finger waving, making loud and ridiculous statements, and shouting everyone down with preposterous statement, then it's hard to make your mark.

Starmer did some real good in his time as DPP, and he is fiercely intelligent. He is razor sharp during debates, and nothing gets past him. He has principles and I think that he genuinely wants to do good. He's not just another power-hungry politician who's in it for the glory. I don't get that sense with him. For balance, I think ex-Tory Rory Stewart had the same energy. I don't agree with Rory Stewart on many policies, but I think he is a fundamentally decent human who failed in his bid as PM because he wasn't as loud and garish as Boris, despite being INFINITELY more qualified to be PM.

Back to Starmer, the difficulty is that he's trying too hard to appeal to everyone and in doing so comes across as a bit vapid. He's trying to unite a deeply divided party, and the left wing of the party would be very happy to get him out.

I would be extremely proud to have someone of his intellect as our PM. I do think he can be tough if needed, and I don't think anyone would ever get one over on him. He would be an excellent representative for the UK, and we wouldn't have other countries laughing at us as was the case with Boris.

Some of Starmer's policies though are problematic. It might not be a priority for all, but there are many women - including myself - who are deeply concerned about the impact of losing our protection under law to single sex spaces. Women have already been raped and sexually assaulted by male-bodied individuals in spaces that were SUPPOSED to be single sex - eg/hospitals, prisons, and toilets.

At the moment, trans rights are directly conflicting with women's rights in some areas, and women are being expected to shuffle to the side (as always) to accommodate male-bodied individuals. Women do not have penises. Trans women can have penises. It's not hate speech to differentiate. There are many, many women who would be fully supportive of helping to develop inclusive policies for trans people that didn't simply amount to "tough luck women, if some of you end up hurt, we don't really care."

Unfortunately, Starmer and Labour have been sticking their fingers in their ears and trying to ignore the issue by pursuing self-ID but now they're trying to subtly backtrack. Unfortunately there are many women who have lost faith in Labour because of their anti-women policies, and won't vote for Starmer - no matter what a decent guy he is in other ways.

But if Labour won't stand up for women's rights, who will? Certainly not the Lib Dems or the Greens - both of those parties have indicated that they will also allow male-bodied individuals into women's spaces if they demand access.

The Tories are saying all the right things - but they're the Tories, and a vote for them is hugely unpalatable for left-leaning voters like myself. So who the hell is left??? Why is it such a HUGE fucking ask to find a party that's willing to consider the issues that women are concerned about?!

Why it is important that you "like" someone who is prime minister? For a start you never really know them. Only how they are presented in the press. Which is about 90% right wing and largely owned by non-UK based millionaires.

There are many other people who run businesses or organisations that affect our lives, head of bank of England, head of the local NHS trust, head of schools, newspaper owners, etc. We don't give them a second thought. If we did, it'd be how well they do their job. Not if we like them. Certainly not how close their eyes are (joke surely!?).

I think the need to be 'inspired' by 'charismatic' leaders is why the country is in such a mess.

I'm starting to feel frustrated by people voting so emotionally instead of rationally.

Starmer doesn't know the definition of a female. Until he picks up the English dictionary, I won't vote for him.

@Bingbangbongbash

That's not what I said. You've completely misquoted me. Total assumption.

I never said they shouldn't do anything. I said the opposite. Read my words again.

I quite like him and the direction of labour, but then unlike some voters my priority isn’t voting for a character, sadly too many people like to treat elections like a soap opera, so rather than focusing on policies, they vote for the most dramatic character.

It's not about personalities though. Vote tactically to get rid of this show whoever that may be in your area

I read them.

The logical conclusion of ‘I don’t like ulez, it’s only about money otherwise they should be doing more’ is that ulez should be scrapped, leaving them in the position of doing even less than currently.

And let’s not forget the Tories have bungled HS2 so catastrophically that it’s now estimated to cost £300bn and will stop 8 miles away from Euston, leaving everyone who’s saved 20 mins getting from Manchester to waste an hour getting into central London - many of them in cabs so there’s a double whammy of no time saved and no pollution reduction. And that’s even before you look at the environmental devastation it’s caused in ancient woodlands and green spaces, or the absolute pigs ear it’s turned Euston into - devastating historic local parts like Drummond Street.

Just who is going to use this expensive half line? I’d rather spend 20 mins longer on one train than have to change and cross London by another means. Of course now it’s only going to Birmingham, the 20 minute saving is more like 10 minutes.

But go on, how do you think London’s pollution problem should be fixed?

The Tories are saying all the right things - but they're the Tories, and a vote for them is hugely unpalatable for left-leaning voters like myself. So who the hell is left??? Why is it such a HUGE fucking ask to find a party that's willing to consider the issues that women are concerned about?!

And while they’re saying the right thing, by every measure things have got worse for women in the U.K.

I have as much concern about the way trans rights are being promoted as the next person, but please don’t think the Tories are on the side of women just because they know we don’t have a penis. They know we don’t have a penis because they need to know who to fuck, literally and figuratively.