To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

It sounds like ADHD to me too but there are still strategies he can have in place to help himself, and I'm surprised this didn't happen in years 5 and 6 tbh. Talk to school about a referral and do some research into how he can help himself to be more organised. But your transcription was painful to read because he's been hearing this like a stuck record for years and is clearly just tuning it out as there just aren't any incentives to try harder or consequences when he gets it wrong.

Yup, ADHD. Hyperfocus is completely consistent with ADHD. It's not his short term memory, it's executive function, but it is part of him.

On a practical level: alarms for every step, and set up as much as humanly possible in the evening before. Tick lists that he physically ticks off. Attach things to his bag, like his timetable, on bungee cord type things so that when he takes things out of his bag they don't actually leave the bag. You will probably need to be physically with him for the routine for longer than his peers, which might require getting yourself ready before he wakes up.

I'm an adult with ADHD and this reminded me of me at school.
Well done on the bullet points even if it hasn't helped yet.

Harsh. Poor OP is at their wits’ end.

OP, another vote for ADHD here but also can you do everything possible to manage the potential for a mess up? Like blazer and tie stay in car overnight so they aren’t a distraction? Copies of things like timetable that may be needed at home too and original stays in bag? Teeth, socks, breakfast etc done at same time in same room as sibling? Place for PE kit by front door? Checklist on front door?

I voted YABU because your son so clearly has ADHD. He is literally telling you that he can't focus and remember, but you aren't listening to him. He needs to be assessed and have structures put in place to help him. Yelling is futile, detentions are futile.

Everything needs to be ready to go the night before. 7 things were missed on the checklist because the list is too long. He needs to be able to get up, get dressed, have breakfast, and brush his teeth. Everything else is the night before. His morning routine should be identical every single day. He will need help in the evenings. Don't just tell him to do something - ensure it is done immediately.

@FluthyFeaffers there is more you can do to help him. It can be a big transition.

Why does he only have one copy of his timetable? Copy it. One on the fridge, one in his blazer pocket, one in his diary/homework journal, one in his blazer pocket, one on the front door if you must - with PE highlighted. Get him to do it.

If he has a homework timetable then several copies of that too.

PE kit - if it's packed, then store it by the front door the night before it goes.

Everything packed for school the night before, and correct uniform ready. Snack for breaktime and water in bag.

Some people have a checklist on the front door to double check when they leave (keys, phone, pe kit, football boots, bus pass, diary, books for day etc...)

You need to check it too; you should have realised he hadn't got his pe kit when he got in the car.

As you suggest, a timed checklist when everything must be done by in the morning would probably be in order here. e.g. 7.30-7.40 get dressed, 7.40-7.5 eat breakfast etc. Copy it several times - one in each room. and make sure he has a watch or access to clocks

If he's not ready on time then he just goes as he is. Pyjamas/no socks/no pe kit - whatever - he won't take long to learn not to make that mistake again. Put the tie on in the car.

Sounds like he might have ADHD.

Try to get him diagnosed.

In the meantime stop yelling at him and all of you get up an hour earlier so you can be on time. Or organise things the night before but still get up 30 mins earlier.

Hyperfocusing IS a symptom of ADHD. It SOUNDS contradictory but it definitely is a thing. Google it.

You just described my DS (15)! He has ADHD. He also has ASD - but that's probably not relevant here.

We always say he has two speeds - slow and stop. Every morning is the same as yours. If I don't remind him about things they don't happen. I tell him to clean his teeth and he gets distracted halfway and I find him on his phone 5 minutes later, teeth forgotten. We often get halfway to school and he remembers something he has left behind. I keep telling him he can't be like this as an adult or he will never hold down a job - all he says is 'sorry'. We've had this since he was small. He is incapable of hurrying. He writes lots of lists and seems organised - but in practice he always gets distracted and none of his planned routines ever happen.

Please don't shout at your DS (although I sometimes do as well - it's so frustrating). Talk to your GP/paediatrician. There are meds for ADHD but we have chosen not to use them - but at least you might understand his issues if he does have SEN, and be able to find other ways to support him.

My boys have inattentive ADHD & very poor working memory/ exec function without medication. You’re describing my life, my everyday. I’d put money on inattentive adhd.

I understand your frustration & losing it with him, it is so difficult when DS should be able to do simple organisation tasks, but then makes everyone late. It is classic inattentive ADHD, he definitely needs testing. My DH is the same he's also dyslexic & dyscalculic, very intelligent, but couldn't organise the proverbial in a brewery. I insisted on him been tested after we started living together, diagnosed at 28, as he was a bloody nightmare. But now we have routines & coping mechanisms, he prepares for work night before, gets up at 4.30 am so can be out for 5.45am as it takes him an age to go through his list & go out & come back for whatever he has forgotten, at least once, but actually not forgotten, just put it in wrong pocket. As others have said preparation is key. Good luck, your DS sounds an absolutely lovely child, who needs help.

Hyperfocus is a big part of ADHD.

Tbh I really think your son might have inattentive type ADHD. It often gets missed in primary school as it's not as disruptive as combined type or hyperactive type.

I have inattentive type ADHD. I could have written your first post about myself and then read this about hyperfocussing.

I think you need to get him assessed.

Sounds like my dd11. She has autism and probably adhd. Executive function is so poor - takes her forever and lots of support to leave the house.

there are some good ideas here which I will try.

Hyperfocusing on things you are interested in but unable to focus on things you're not is the basis of ADHD.

He sounds just like my son who is now 13. He has had an ADD assessment in Y6 and didn’t get a diagnosis, based mainly on not struggling at school (they need evidence of substantial difficulties in two settings) - as he’s bright enough to get good grades. It was me that was blooming struggling with the endless lost property, forgotten lunch, wearing the wrong PE kit and just getting him out of the door. He has a very simple Velcro chart for getting ready but he needs a lot of standing over him and issuing one word instructions and he has no concept of ‘time taken to get somewhere’ so is perpetually late setting off. The book ‘Dirty Laundry’ written by an adult with ADHD and her spouse was helpful to me in understanding a bit of what it feels like. It’s really hard though - we had a busy day on Saturday and I left him to his own devices with a list of things he needed to achieve - by dinner time he’d done precisely nothing because I’d had no time to stand over him and I did lose my rag. His sister who is 4 years younger appears in the morning, fully dressed, bag packed, chores done and it is so frustrating trying to remember that he can’t (rather than won’t) do the same. I feel your pain!

Sounds just like me DC2 diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia

My son has ADHD, he has the beat memory his Senco has tested and has an amazing recall for historical dates and stuff he wants to remember. But he cannot organise stuff without structure in place. We have no screens allowed before school and a morning and evening routine list for him to complete, with brush your teeth ,make your bed stuff on it. The only reason he has a diagnosis is because I questioned school after lockdown. His grades are average and he isn't behind.

That poor boy you owe him one fucking massive apology for screaming at him like that for a start. No virtual hugs from me, you know shouting at him doesn’t work but it sounds like you really let rip at him.

nasty behaviour you should be ashamed of yourself whether he has SEN or not - and as someone diagnosed as an adult I agree it sounds like adhd. Being good at English and bad at maths is another common symptom from speaking to lots of people who also have it.

you know what he struggles with but you just watch him struggle day after day and then have a go at him about it.

I am like your son and I'm afraid I didn't read the whole of your first post as I lost concentration. My youngest child is the same. He's not doing it to annoy you.
I make lists the night before and sellotape them to the door. Have multiples of everything, as there is no chance that either of us will remember anything. Put everything that he needs by the front door, even though he'll probably see it and step over it in the morning. Attach things to his school bag - I still do this now (the night before I know I'm going to work, I tie everything to my bag that I will need - phone, lunch, keys, etc, then tie the whole lot to the front door handle. The problem with detention is that he'll probably forget to go to that as well (my DD had many detentions for losing/forgetting/being late, and then had trouble because she forgot that she was supposed to be in detention, or turned up late, or on the wrong day).
My youngest child and I are also seasoned hyper-focus-ers, which actually makes everything worse, as we're so busy hyper focussing on something that we end up missing and forgetting what we're supposed to be doing.
I know it's hard, but try to find strategies rather than getting angry.

Also yes - ADHD /ADD kids can focus very well when they want to. Usually on computer games . But if you look into that it usually is something which is changing all the time - so if they watch TV they switch channels or rewind stuff, computer games are continually moving forwards etc.

But they can also focus on things like Lego which seem fairly static. Don't rule out ADHD just because he can focus, or because he's doing well at school. These things really are not mutually exclusive.

Your first two sentences are why I didn't think my child had ADHD and they were late diagnosed.

As for your last sentence, he could have auditory processing issues, especially if he's SEN.

I would get this child an assessment.

This is my experience too, my DS was self harming before his dyspraxia diagnosis having been told for years at school that everything would be fine if he just tried harder. Following a diagnosis he understood that it wasn't anything he had been doing wrong. A Dyslexia diagnosis followed, which highlighted working and auditory memory problems and how distractible he is, but also how well he masks and covers for himself with his strengths.

He 100000% sounds like he has inattentive adhd

I would also say that whether or not anyone is diagnosed with anything, the strategies remain the same. I'm not diagnosed with anything, and neither is my DC because I never thought that route would be particularly helpful. The person remains the same person whatever the label, and still needs to find ways to get on with the world.

1 Bags ready the night before - stand next to it, issue the orders and don’t leave the bag till he’s put everything in.
2 Morning routine - he needs to change at the same time as you, if not comfortable with same room then just outside your door and shout to confirm as each item goes on. He then goes down for breakfast with you. Put his food in front of him, no phone & no leaving table till eaten. Stand over as shoes & coat go on and then escort him to car.
I’m afraid you can’t assume he’ll do anything alone, it means you have to be hyper organised, getting up earlier if you need to. Hope this helps!! ….I have to do this with my youngest who is also away with the fairies!