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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have lost it at DS aged 11

1000 replies

FluthyFeaffers · 26/09/2023 21:56

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
larlypops · 26/09/2023 22:20

My sons the same age, he’s the same but has asd so I pack all the correct stuff each morning and check his diary for reminders as he doesn’t have a clue

Ilinaya · 26/09/2023 22:20

ADHD screams out of your OP.

Mamai90 · 26/09/2023 22:21

Your son sounds like text book ADHD.

MidnightOnceMore · 26/09/2023 22:22

FluthyFeaffers · 26/09/2023 22:08

He can hyper focus on things though.
He can spend hours focusing on things that he's interested in, or is enjoying.
To me that's not consistent with ADHD, is it?
Or am I wrong?
He's gone through the whole of primary school with nothing ever being picked up. His grades are always average. He's amazing at reading and spelling, above average in my opinion but school says average. Poor at maths.
And his long term memory recall is phenomenal. Shocks me with the details he can remember long term. But can't bloody remember an instruction from 2 minutes ago.
He said tonight that he needs help because he thinks he's got "listening problems". I don't know what this means.....😞

Have you ever taken him to the doctor or asked school to assess?

You must get him some help. Please listen to him. He's asking you to help.

Amethystanddiamonds · 26/09/2023 22:22

This is my DD (and my DS but he's only just getting to an age where this is not normal) send her to do a simple task a toddler should do and you find her half naked reading a book rather than her teeth brushed or her PJs on. She is incredibly bright, not disruptive at school, etc. Has a diagnosis of ASD.

I'm with other posters and would put money on there actually being an undiagnosed SEN.

Slightlyoff · 26/09/2023 22:22

Sounds like my DS, who I strongly suspect has (inattentive) ADHD. I suspect I do too and have shown signs since I first went to school but nothing that would have been picked up all that time ago, particularly as I was bright enough that I still managed to do well, but I was in a total mess and so anxious all the way through school and beyond. My life is still a shitshow.

I can see the same thing happening with DS. I raised it with his teachers at primary, but because he's so intelligent they just dismissed my concerns, but mornings are hellish at secondary even though I organise everything for him the night before, make sure I know his timetable and when homework is due and take on a huge amount of the stress on his behalf. I'm hoping at some point a teacher will see enough of the behaviour he probably masks quite well that I will be believed.

TokyoSushi · 26/09/2023 22:24

I'm also saying ADHD, however, there's not going to be a quick fix for that, so in the meantime, however inconvenient, you need to step in.

It seems that he's literally unable, rather than unwilling to do as you ask. So pack his rucksack together, you put his PE kit in his bag, supervise him closely in the morning so he's unable to be diverted off task.

arethereanyleftatall · 26/09/2023 22:24

Hugs op. This must be so so hard for you. Flowers I think you have been patient with him, so so patient.
(Also, what the others said about adhd)

Wanderingfree32 · 26/09/2023 22:24

Yes, it actually feels like the OP is taking the Mick. They are actually describing all of the traits of someone with suspected ADHD.

scoobysnaxx · 26/09/2023 22:24

This is absolutely SCREAMING SEN needs. ADHD possibly.

It's hard.

Please don't blame him. 'Sorry for being me' breaks my heart.

He is clearly trying even if it doesn't look like it. It's so so simple to us. For someone with SEN needs IT IS NOT.

A problem with executive functioning means they cannot help it.

I'm a psychotherapist and I regularly screen and put adults through for a diagnosis of ASD/ADHD. Their reported childhood experiences mirror this.

Constantly being told WHY CANT YOU JUST... etc. they often have long term self esteem issues and anxiety and depression.

Please considering getting him assessed l/re-assessed.

TrailingLoellia · 26/09/2023 22:24

FluthyFeaffers · 26/09/2023 22:08

He can hyper focus on things though.
He can spend hours focusing on things that he's interested in, or is enjoying.
To me that's not consistent with ADHD, is it?
Or am I wrong?
He's gone through the whole of primary school with nothing ever being picked up. His grades are always average. He's amazing at reading and spelling, above average in my opinion but school says average. Poor at maths.
And his long term memory recall is phenomenal. Shocks me with the details he can remember long term. But can't bloody remember an instruction from 2 minutes ago.
He said tonight that he needs help because he thinks he's got "listening problems". I don't know what this means.....😞

ADHD comes with hyper-activity which can be physical or can be hyper focus. And it is not controllable. As in the person cannot pick and choose when or what to hyper focus on.

Your DS sounds exactly like a child struggling with ADHD. No amount of telling or yelling is going to help him.

DiddyRa · 26/09/2023 22:25

I would look up inattentive ADHD and honestly no amount of threats or incentives can change the way his brain is wired.

My parents would have said I had no SEN but I have the above and masked it my whole life.

CuteAsDuck · 26/09/2023 22:27

@Slightlyoff exact same situation with my DS it's heartbreaking as I can see the struggle.

I am diagnosed and to me it's so obvious, but school have been very dismissive because he's 'no bother' and 'bright' whereas I know he masks all day and comes home absolutely exhausted as a result.

Iammetoday · 26/09/2023 22:27

ADHD- have a read,
Things to do checklist to tick off before bed- everything he needs in bags by door, uniform hanging up etc. He does it and ticks you check it.
Morning checklist- stay on him for a few mornings, get washed, dressed, then go with him to get breakfast, then walk up to brush teeth with him etc. Keep instructions short - teeth- abd point to checklist until done. You are going to have to help him. Also ask SENCO in school. Not unusual to get through primary with no diagnosis.

Doveyouknow · 26/09/2023 22:28

My son has ASD and you have pretty much described my mornings. Things that help are making sure I pack his bag with him the night before, strict routine in the morning so everything is done in the same order and keeping an eye on him to ensure he is doing what he should be. It is really frustrating that I need to take such a big role in getting him ready but the reality is that he still needs that level of support.

GruffalosGirl · 26/09/2023 22:28

It's sounds exactly like adhd. Both my kids and I have adhd and we are all the same. My DS is year 10 and needs reminders every five minutes in the morning and me body doubling him to get up and out on time. Kids can be bright and have adhd, both my kids are in grammar schools. I still feel guilty for all the times I punished DS for his symptoms before we knew his diagnosis.

I would body double and do all of the tasks with him. Physically pack his bag with him the night before. Put his PE kit in visual sight by the door before you leave. Teach him mantras for memory for leaving the house "bag, keys, phone" is mine. Don't just remind him, watch him do it. Make sure you are ready to leave at least 15 minutes before you have to every single day to give a window to go back home. Stop thinking about what he "should" be able to do, accept he clearly has issues with executive function and meet him where he is with strategies that help him learn skills and build his confidence. Research what will help him, and keep trying strategies with him until you find one that works.

My dd started year 7 like this, and with the detentions and punishments from school for forgetting ended up with severe anxiety and school avoidance before they figured out it was undiagnosed adhd, due to the stress of constantly being in trouble for something she was absolutely unable to control with neurotypical techniques and people saw as a personality flaw.

scoobysnaxx · 26/09/2023 22:29

Please please read into ADHD.

It is very very misunderstood.

It's not just about hyperactivity. People can mask their symptoms very very well.

fruitypancake · 26/09/2023 22:30

RudsyFarmer · 26/09/2023 22:11

I would just get more involved. I’d put his timetable in his bag. Put his PE kit in the car the evening before etc etc. There is no point demanding independence if the child hasn’t got the maturity yet. You just have to step up until he can take over.

Yes I agree . My DS year 9 and I pack everything .. make sure homework in bag, check for everything else , check timetable to see if PE etc .. all he has to do is get dressed and I think if necessary you need to follow him upstairs earlier and have him ready before everyone else. He can sit with shoes on and bag by front door whilst you get ready if needed

Redmat · 26/09/2023 22:30

I don't really understand why you didn't put his timetable in his bag. Two years experience must have told you that the likelihood of it making it into his bag was about as possible as him flying to the moon.
My son was like this. I had to get to work, so I helped him far more than he should have needed. It was the only way and kept us all sane!

PragmaticWench · 26/09/2023 22:31

He can hyper focus on things though.
He can spend hours focusing on things that he's interested in, or is enjoying.
To me that's not consistent with ADHD, is it?
Or am I wrong?

Completely wrong. That is ADHD.

Oftenaddled · 26/09/2023 22:31

ADHD, anxiety/ avoidance around ADHD traits / auditory processing all seem worth considering.

Long-term memory and IQ aren't affected by ADHD.

Ask his school for advice as a starting point.

Peakypolly · 26/09/2023 22:32

You brought tears to my eyes Op!
I knew everyone would be saying ADHD but my DS was absolutely the same (think I posted on here about it!) and did/does not have ADHD. A brilliant member of staff at his school suggested audio processing disorder could be the cause of his inability to remember instructions, and yet succeed in his academic endeavours. As with your DS, he would dread getting in trouble and very rarely did as the staff could see he tried hard.
My DS ended up at the perfect Uni for him and now, mid-20s, is on a great managerial training scheme in the construction industry- and most importantly is very happy. He now comments that he always felt the constant demands of school felt like commands being shouted at him underwater.
Good luck.

TitusMoan · 26/09/2023 22:33

Wanderingfree32 · 26/09/2023 22:24

Yes, it actually feels like the OP is taking the Mick. They are actually describing all of the traits of someone with suspected ADHD.

Some people don’t automatically google if they’ve already discounted it. You might not know about hyperfocus if you’ve always thought ADHD is just about lack of attention. This erroneous belief could easily be reinforced by other family members. You might also assume a child will grow out of any issues like this.

Plus if you’ve got one child with SEN, you might assume the other one doesn’t, if their additional needs don’t present in the same way.

OP, school won’t have picked it up because children like yours learn to look at what everyone else is doing to find out what they should be doing.

There is some good advice on this thread. Ignore the impatient ‘you should have known’ types.

Otterock · 26/09/2023 22:34

ADHD with bells on. Not processing what you’re being told, memory issues and hyper focus on interesting things are all hallmarks.

Bags packed the night before. Uniform out the night before. Can you even prep breakfast the night before? Like overnight oats or something else that can be grabbed and eaten. I’m waiting to be diagnosed but I’m also not a morning person so I have to do as much as possible the night before because I will not remember everything in the morning when I’m tired.

TitusMoan · 26/09/2023 22:34

PS @Oftenaddled has given possible answers to follow up, which is far better than just settling on ADHD without further investigation.

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