To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

Just wanted to add a couple of things, having now read you updates @FluthyFeaffers - DD (my inattentive one) also gets seriously drained from school, particularly when she hit secondary school, just as you are describing your DS. There have been a few times each year when I have called her in sick, not because she had some sort of bug, but she was so drained she just needed a day or two in bed to keep going (and during the GCSEs, not long before Xmas, I ended up rushing her off to the doctor to get some blood tests, as she was so drained and white I was scared I might be missing something like diabetes - she was so drained she practically couldn't lift a spoon to have breakfast, it was really scary) it took us over a week to get her back to school - and probably if I had stepped in earlier and insisted on a duvet day, maybe it would have only been a couple of days she missed. But of course it was GCSEs, and she was trying so, so hard, and I was trying to balance the problems of missing content with the exhaustion. (PS, A levels is easier, so far, only having three subjects rather than 10 really helps and they have frees, which gives her the potential of a bit of down time).

Interestingly (and I don't know how others found it) but DD was the only child I know who actually flourished educationally in lockdown (DS2 with his hyperactivity was climbing the walls, even though he was so much older). The advantage to education by zoom for DD was: (i) she could fiddle out of sight of the camera and not be told off, so could concentrate better; (ii) she didn't have to keep packing up her stuff and unpacking it in different classrooms, and moving from place to place and getting lost, she just sat in the one room and the teachers zoomed in which made her much less tired; (iii) all the stuff that she would ever need was in that room, and so she could always find it when needed and didn't need to worry about not having the right equipment; (iv) because there were far fewer discipline problems (they could always mute a difficult child), the teachers were much more encouraging and less likely to shout - which tends to send DD into daydreams to get away from the shouting, so she was much more likely to listen.

And finally, I also wanted to point out something that may jump out at me, but I am not sure that anybody has commented on. From your description of your DS, he sounds very self aware and insightful about himself and what he can and can't do. Very mature in terms of self knowledge and understanding. I am not sure DD has that level of insight yet and she is much older (DS2 always more, he always had a lot of insight into his own issues and how best to manage them, this weird maturity that often impresses people. He also was a talker, both of them are, but DS2 particularly - a number of the mums used to be amazed at how much I knew about what was going on in school, as their DC, particularly the boys, tended to just grunt, whereas DS2 in particular, but DD also, seriously talk and talked). And it does help to find hacks, if you like, alternative paths to achieving what needs to be achieved (that is how I sometimes pictured it to them, we might struggle to get there the usual path, so we have to find a different way up the mountain, but we have to get up the mountain somehow)- because by and large the best hacks always were the ones that came from the DC themselves - and sometimes they seemed bizarre to me, and I pooh-poohed them as making no sense, only for us to try them and have them work. Sounds like you are doing that, but just wanted to add.

@MrsKnows Excellent explanation and non functioning legs analogy. If only people understood more about the ADHD spectrum.

Not RTFT but, this is my DD. Dx at 15. Is generally sloth like in demeanour, never physically hyper. But in her head, she's all over the place and cannot hold a train of thought. Meds have been revolutionary. We didn't suspect a thing. Even medical professionals were fooled.

ADHD is massively misunderstood.
Popcorn brain. I have it too. Lots of other issues too

Don't get how the partner/father thing is relevant?

If there is a partner I sort of assumed he was off to work. I never used to see my Dad in the morning and it's only on the days DH is wfh that mine see their Dad.

More people start work at 8am than 9am.

@Littlegreene82
I have just sent you a direct message in response to your ongoing unsupportive, critical and assumptive remarks about me and now about my DH on this thread.
I have also reported you to HQ.

No, not how dare you ask if i have a partner.
Although it is absolutely none of your business.
What I said how dare you to, is in response to you saying he does "bugger all" in the mornings, and that he "seems to have no involvement whatsoever", which I very clearly explained in my DM to you, so I'm really surprised you've interpreted that as me saying how dare you in response to asking if I have a partner. In addition to you mocking me by calling me a headless chicken, which I find really insulting.
I will wait for HQ to deal with this.
In the meantime, please leave me alone now. This is harassment.

I hardly dare post after last new posts!

but op surely it is relevant you have a husband and your son has a dad? Your Op is all about the burden on you - for both children. With no mention in dozens of posts of a partner.

how does your husband respond to the stress and how does he approach what’s going on?

I’m not criticising your DH btw way 😬

Just asking

It’s irrelevant to the post. There could be a number of reasons he can’t help. Work hours, working away, disability/illness etc. It’s not what the OP was asking about and as you’ve just seen from the posts above, OP obviously doesn’t want to discuss it so why on earth would you still comment on it?

@FluthyFeaffers how are you getting on with DS? I honestly thought of you yesterday but couldn't remember the name of the thread and hadn't saved. Is the 1 thing at a time working better?

@FluthyFeaffers hey don't feel you need to explain yourself and give the details of your family to anyone on here.

Back to the point - how are things going -are you and DS getting along in the quest to get out the door 🚪 in the morning?
Have school been helpful?

Best thing you can do is leave him be. If he forgets his PE kit or his homework it's on him. Let him cry and sulk and tantrum and get a detention. The message will eventually sink in.

I do kind of agree. Yes, he has ADHD, but he still needs to learn or work out what will help him. Of course some meds might be needed, but he does need to come up with some kind of plan and experience consequences. What happens when he becomes an adult with ADHD if he has had help to deal with organising all his teens? He can't just start floundering and being late for work every day because his mummy isn't there etc. Or start a family and rely on his partner to do all the organisation and mental load because he can't hold a thought in his mind. He just can't rely on his mum to help until the day he's 18.

You are not being unreasonable, if your son has no problems BUT, I seriously think he should be checked out as this is not usual behaviour for an 11 year old!!
Definitely take him to the doctor, you could see the doctor on your own first to explain how things are, and ask for help!!
In the meantime, copy your sons timetable and stick it on your fridge or somewhere you'll see it each day. Check when he has P.E. and have his kit ready for him in your car.
Prepare his clothes the night before and put them, ready, on a chair in his room.
Little things like this will help!
Also, ask for a meeting with his teachers/head of year and explain to them why you are constantly late, ask them what he is like in classes?!
You'll need the doctor AND teachers to help you and him!!
Good luck.

I think that, very gently, YABU. He clearly has some additional need that is not being met. He sounds A LOT like me when I was at school. I've been diagnosed with dyspraxia as an adult - trouble with co-ordination, which often leads o disorganisation. Could it be something like that?

I understand you're frustrated. I used to get frustrated too. But yelling won't work. It will just make him feel bad. Maybe set reminders on his phone for every single thing to do?

Best of luck.

@Lilova my ADHD child is 20....2 years into a 5 year waiting list for official diagnosis. I still need to 'manage' her life.... like an unpaid P.A.

OP my daughter has ADHD and is medicated.
She goes to a very strict school and in year 7 got LOADS of detentions. It's been the absolute making of her. Really helped her to focus and has helped her mature.
I think they come down on them like a ton of bricks early so that they're clear on expectations.

This can go both ways. It may focus the mind of some dc, but many others will end up refusing school and their mental health will deteriorate so much that they become unable to learn and cope with anything. If SENDs go together with high levels of anxiety, extreme external pressure is unlikely to help, at least without additional support/guidance/mentoring/coaching/therapy.