To have lost it at DS aged 11

[FluthyFeaffers]

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

It sounds very much like he does have special needs tbh.

Is his memory like this the rest of the time or is exclusively limited to getting ready for school?

It probably would have been a good idea to address this last year at primary.

Does he have access to electronics in the morning OP?

If so, before you go down any sort of ADHD route, I'd take them off him and then see how he gets on.

I have ADHD (in process of being diagnosed but if I don't have it, I'll show my ass in Harrod's window).

Your son was me as a child. I just couldn't do it. Not that I didn't want to or I wanted to upset people or inconvenience them, I just could not do those things.

I am not a psychiatrist but I am a counsellor and have quite a lot of experience of this type of thing, and am pretty well-read on it. I would say there's a good chance he has ADHD.

Don't feel too bad though OP. You've been very patient and this is the first step in sorting things out. You've apologised. None of us are perfect.

Okay on a practical level....anything that needs to be in bags or in the car, do it the night before. Time your morning routine to include ten minutes of him standing in front of you getting dressed. His uniform on the bed. You stand there at the door as he puts each item on. Regardless of if it's ADHD or not, you and his sibling need him to be out the door at x time, so you have to whatever that takes. Have cereal bars, pastries etc he can eat in the car if necessary. My DD is not dissimilar and I have to simply do stuff for her, like find hairbands every day. I'm a teacher, I can't be late so I do way more for her than I should because of the big picture. While you figure out longer term solutions, survival is the game.

He’s very clearly got some sort of SEN here, I can’t understand why you aren’t realising that. Every day for 2 years and you think he’s just being a pain. Do you think he enjoys having a memory like this? Do you think it’s fun for him having you on his case so much and still struggling? YABU here.

Worlds longest OP!! But from what I skimmed I see ADHD.

My DD's adhd was only picked up at uni.

Although by that point she had dropped out of a levels once as she couldn't cope with the level of organisation needed.

She can hyper focus on special interests no problem - she spent her gcse years hyper focused on Latin and essentially completely memorised large chunks of Latin poetry and translations. Smashed the GCSE,

Currently studying astrophysics at uni (fluid dynamics of gas giants is the current hyper focus)

I went through a similar thing when my daughter was younger than your son. She would easily get distracted and just take forever to get ready for school. I put a rule in that she had to be dressed for school before leaving her bedroom in the morning. It might sound abit harsh but it worked because she’d obviously be wanting her breakfast but needed to hurry up and get dressed first. All that was left to do then was her teeth.

Auditory Processing/dyslexia or ADHD?

Have a read of all three.

Lots of people get a later on diagnosis and fly under the radar for years and years.

Agree with all the pp saying he has working memory problems. He likely wants to be able to do it, but he can't. So making him promise beforehand or shouting after is not going to help, and will make everyone feel worse. But you know this already.

Ticklists etc will help but he doesn't sound like he can use these things by himself yet. So for a few weeks you'll have to role model how he can use the timetable to plan the next day, and get up 15 mins early to stand next to him whilst he uses the getting ready ticklists. If it were me, I would get the little ones ready then stick the TV on and use the extra 15 mins to help him.

If he has time blindness, then reminders on Alexa can help (go brush your teeth, time for shoes etc) or a visual timer for how long he has to eat breakfast might help.

Hyper focus is a sign of adhd.
He may mask very well in school, unless he's disruptive in class it probably wouldn't be picked up on. in my experience a lot of teachers don't seem to know the signs of adhd.

He said tonight that he needs help because he thinks he's got "listening problems". I don't know what this means.....😞

Are you for real? He’s telling you he’s struggling and he doesn’t understand his own brain. He’s literally asking you for help and you think there’s no SEN, no adhd, nothing.

You are describing me as a child (and adult). A year ago, I was diagnosed with Innattentive ADHD (in addition to ASD).

I was bright at school, can hyperfocus on things that are of interest to me. I can remember all of the names of the kids in my year 6 class from the 1980's and exactly where they sat in that class. When I recall things like this, most people can't even remember any names of the kids they went to primary school with. I can reel off names of people 3 years above me to kids 5 years below me...even now, decades later.

My Dad would send me up the stairs to fetch something. I'd know that he was talking to me but I couldn't process everything that he was saying. I'd get halfway up the stairs and would have no recollection of what I'd been sent upstairs to fetch.

If you have a sibling with SEND, them your chances of having SEND yourself are very high!

School don't pick it up if it doesn't affect them too much. My kids' primary school denied that they were autistic even after the NHS diagnosis. Their reasoning was because they were bright and not like the other autistic kids. Both fell apart in year 7 and are in a specialist school now...

Yes to assessment but in the meantime you really need to shake up your morning routine.
he sounds like he’s a nervous kid so the leave him to it and feel the consequences tactic might be counterproductive .

you needto check everything the night before- make sure it is all in the bag and sat by the door.
he gets up puts all the uniform on then cleans teeth , comes downstairs - if he has time he sits and eats breakfast- if he hasn’t he’s eating toast and putting shoes on in the car.

That is 3 things to do. He does not track back on himself. He leaves the bedroom to go to bathroom then the kitchen and finally hallway. Nowhere else and in that order.

I’ll be honest though- while I have been able to throw all mine out of the house within 15minites if necessary , I have been known to shame a sergeant major with the volume. You don’t need to sugar coat the fact that he needs to move.

I didn’t read all your post but the thing that struck me is this has gone on for 2 years and you haven’t put steps in to help him. You need to set your alarm earlier, get up, get yourself showered and ready whilst younger DC starts to get up and then get younger one sorted and plonked on sofa to read a book or quietly play then around 7:30 get DS up and stay with him. Help him to stay on task.
Use a shower timer and tell him if he’s not out by then then you’ll be coming in, naked or not. Otherwise for all other tasks stay with him and on it to keep focused.
It sounds like you are getting up way too late and then leaving him to it. Two years is not acceptable, he clearly needs help, it’s bloody tough being a parent but it’ll be half term before you know it. Use these few weeks to establish a better routine.

Poor working memory, short term memory, and executive function with hyperfocus also suggests adhd to me.

I’d request a meeting with school asap and start the process of assessment for SEND.

This is like you are describing a morning in MY house with my DS who is currently being assessed for ADHD. It is immensely stressful, the thing I struggle most with is keeping my cool and not making further difficulties by making him upset because I’m cross with him! Allowing more time helps, we get up at 6am for an 8.10am exit. I accept nothing will be done unless I’m stood over him. Sometimes it helps to race him, he’s quite competitive and likes it but he’s younger than your DS.

Otherwise, each task into small chunks and stand there until it’s done. I’ve no idea what happens longer term, I’m hoping at some point I work out a way to help him help himself

He can hyper focus on things though.
He can spend hours focusing on things that he's interested in, or is enjoying.
To me that's not consistent with ADHD, is it?
Or am I wrong?

Hyperfocus is part of the diagnostic criteria for ADHD. My DS is waiting assessment, our mornings can be the same as you describe. What works for us is a completely consistent routine, my DS knows that he needs to do things right away, and even then can be distracted between the bedroom and the bathroom.

Easy routines, lots of supervision and prompting are your friend here. And stop shouting - increased anxiety will make his short term memory even worse.

Oh FGS get your story straight, you're even using the terminology of ADHD symptoms here while claiming you don't think he has ADHD. Wish I hadn't wasted my time posting now. 🙄

Make your life easier by taking some of this off the mornings. Pack bags the night before. Put them in the car. Lay out uniform ready.
Get up before kids and get self ready. Whether he has send or not he is rubbish at getting ready and making it horrible for you all. Take it over for now.

This is absolutely textbook ADHD. Having ADHD doesn't mean you can never focus, being able to hyperfocus on things he enjoys is very much normal in ADHD. Additionally having long term memory but no working memory is also a typical ADHD trait.
I'd encourage you to do some research because even if it takes a few years to get a diagnosis, there are lots of support groups and things you can put in place now which can help.
Anything he needs to do make it visual - a sticky chart that he changes when he's done a chore, a timer for brushing his teeth or counting down to leaving. Organisation systems like colour coordinated folders for each subject in school - these are all examples of things that can make such a difference.

This.
He totally has

Hyperfocus is 100% a symptom of DS's ADHD.

All of the above and yet you haven't considered ADHD Inattentive type?

Schedule/tick list for night before
Another for the morning