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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have lost it at DS aged 11

1000 replies

FluthyFeaffers · 26/09/2023 21:56

I have yelled at him this evening.
He is 11, soon to be 12.
Started Yr 7 in secondary school 3 weeks ago.
He is struggling so much with his (lack of) organisation in the mornings before school, I am at my wits end.
I spent the whole of year 5 and 6 battling, absolutely battling with him to get ready for school, but never succeeded. We were late every single day for 2 years.
"Eat your breakfast" gets distracted eating breakfast.
"Clean your teeth" goes upstairs to clean teeth but wanders around doing something else.
"Get dressed" goes in to bedroom to get dressed but ends up doing something else.
Etc. Etc. All through year 5 & 6.
It made us late because whilst this was going on I'm racing around trying to get myself ready for work and trying to get my other younger DC ready. Then I'd go and check on DS and he'd never ever have done what I'd sent him to do.
Nothing worked to motivate him. No reward system, no sticker chart, no amount of explaining about the repercussions of not doing as asked, no amount of explaining about the knock on effect of being late for school. I tried it all for 2 years. Nothing worked.
But because it was primary school, all that happened to him was we missed the school gate and had to go roundcto the front reception to be let in. He got a warm friendly greeting from teachers and I got a look of "Why can't you get your poor child in to school on time" and then I'd arrive late for work and get reprimanded for it.
So I spent the whole summer drilling it in to him that in Yr 7 he must must must get to school on time, because in secondary school if you're late you get a detention, because you're causing your sibling masses of stress by making them late for school every time you're late for school, because I am getting in to serious trouble at work because of arriving late every day because I drop you in late because you're not ready to leave on time, because it creates SO MUCH STRESS when you won't get ready in time to leave on time for school.
Yes yes yes yes yes mum, he said every time I brought it up over summer.
I promise, promise, promise I will change, he said.
4 weeks in to secondary school, and it is a nightmare every single morning.
He cannot, cannot get himself ready for school in time to leave.
I spell out for him every single morning what he needs to do. It's soooooo eeeeeasy. It's the same god damn things every single day! Nothing changes! Do x, y, z.
"Yes mum" wanders around.
"Have you done x, y and z?"
"No, sorry, I forgot. I'll do it now"
Wanders off.
"Why haven't you done x? Ive asked you twice now"
"Sorry"
"Do it now"
"Why haven't you done y? I've asked you 3 times"
"I'm sorry. I'll do it. I'm trying my best"
Last week he needed to take his PE bag on 1 of the says.
"Remember to take your PE bag today, it's hanging in the cupboard " I said.
"Oh yeah!!!!! PE!!!!! I forgot!!!!!! Thanks for reminding me!!!!!"
20 mins later:
"Have you got your PE bag?"
"Oh No! I forgot! I'll get it now...."
15 mins later, after non stop constant continuous marshalling to get ready, do this, do that, do this, do that:
"Right, come on, we're late again, pick up your rucksack and your PE bag we need to leave NOW"
DS hovers around putting on tie and blazer which I'd asked him to do the the past hour sling with all his other things he needs to do.
"NOW" I raise my voice, as he's making my other child late for school and me late for work.
He runs out the door, jumps in the car.
We get to school.
He turns pale and says "I've forgotten my PE bag"
"Tough" I say. " I have told you 3 times this morning to take your PE bag. I reminded you for the 3rd time right before we left home."
DS starts crying
"I will get a detention!!!!!!!!!"
His worst, absolute worst fear, is getting a detention. He's never had one, and is terrified of getting one.
"Maybe you'll learn if you get a detention " I say.
Then he starts begging and pleading with me to take him home to get his PE bag. He's crying sorry over and over again. He looks physically ill, sweating, clammy, pale.
So I drive him home to get PE bag.
My other child starts crying because now she is horribly late for school (different school) and is too young to go in by herself plus she has SEN and isn't mature enough to cope with going in by herself.
I drop him back to school. He's late. I drop DD toschool. She's late. I get 'the look' from her teachers. I drive to work. I'm late. I get disciplined by my boss.
That evening, I talk to DS for a very, very long time about the impact of his disorganisation in the mornings.
We work out that it would help him if I wrote down for him everything he needs to do in the mornings.
So I write it all out in very clear, bullet point steps. I show it to him, he thinks it's really helpful.
Great, I think.
Why didnt I think of this before.
1 week on, it's of no help at all.
This morning, he's wandering around telling me he's ready whilst simultaneously having forgotten 7 instructions in his morning list. I pointed each of the 7 things on the list out to him, staring each thing that was on the list that he hadn't done.
I told him to do them.
Went off to get other child ready to leave, I'm ready to leave, DS still not ready to leave. We were all late again.
Yesterday, he had something really important to take to school. His timetable. I askedchim SIX TIMES to put his timetable in to his rucksack (he'd got it out at home and I'd seen it in theclounge). I told him the night before, and again in the morning, 6 separate times in total "Put your timetable in to your rucksack now, otherwise you will forget" . 6 times. The 6th time was just before we left. I mean, I was getting more and more stern each time. "Put. Your. Timetable. In. To. Your. Rucksack. NOW. NOW!" We got to school. He turned pale. Panicked. "Mum I've forgotten my timetable!!!!!!!".
I point blank refused to go back and sent him in to school without it. He was really upset. Told me after school today that he'd gone to the wrong classroom at one point in the day as couldn't remember without his timetable. So I said "Go and put it in your rucksack now then, do it now".
"Ok" he says.
Dinnertime:
"Did you put your timetable in your rucksack?"
"Oh No! I got distracted! I'll do it now!"
Evening time
"Is your timetable in your rucksack?"
"No.......I forgot......."
"Go and do it immediately "
"OK...."
Bedtime, he's in bed, reading:
"Darling, is your timetable in your rucksack, did you do it?"
"No, sorry, I'm sorry mum, I forgot"
And that was that.
I lost it.
Yelled at him. For ages.
I have NEVER yelled at him before. Never.
He was devastated. So remorseful. Said sorry over and over again.
And finally, he broke my heart by sadly and quietly saying "I'm so sorry for being me. I really struggle with my short term memory mummy. I know it causes problems butvi cant help it".
He's soon to be 12.
He has not got SEN.
He's bright.
He's average at school except for maths where he's below average.
He's amazing in every other way.
He's such a good boy.
He tries so hard all of the time to do his best.
He's a clever boy.
He's a wonderful personality.
Fantastic sense of humour.
Loving.
Kind.
Affectionate.
Funny.
Friends love him.
Teachers complimentary about him.
What the hell is wrong with him in tbe mornings?????????
Am I being too hard?
Am I expecting too much????

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Wannago · 14/10/2023 21:35

NellyBarney · 13/10/2023 22:14

This can go both ways. It may focus the mind of some dc, but many others will end up refusing school and their mental health will deteriorate so much that they become unable to learn and cope with anything. If SENDs go together with high levels of anxiety, extreme external pressure is unlikely to help, at least without additional support/guidance/mentoring/coaching/therapy.

Or yet another way - they use all their resources to make sure they have all the equipment and avoid being told off eg for figeting or finding the right classroom or whatever and therefore learn nothing in class, because it takes absolutely everything they have to prioritise these things and avoid detentions. Pretty much all year 7 and 8, DD was coming home with maths homework, but it was as if they had never covered it in class at all. She was so terrified of her maths teacher (who was quite strict) that she was not learning anything at all in class. Luckily I have a degree that included a lot of maths, and so, despite being rather rusty, by looking at the sheet of homework and the textbook I could work out what was required, teach it to DD (in an environment in which she could learn, even if it meant her figeting or whatever), and then she could do it (she is no slouch at maths, just wasn't able to concentrate in class). Most of the rest of her subjects weren't so bad (how much she learnt was inversely proportional to how strict the teacher was, not anything to do with the subject), but we were literally doing a double shift on many subjects, most weeks, and I was having to sit with her at home for hours (and I did this on top of packing her bag and trying to make sure she had everything in it - all she was trying to manage was not to leave things when she changed classrooms and not call attention to herself in class).
By the GCSEs, the double load was starting to really be too much for her, and she realised she needed to start concentrating in class and not daydreaming so much, which is where the pencil case came in, as flicking the sequins under the desk really helped. And covid really helped as she did so much better with online learning. And a bit of maturity to understand that actually, the learning was the key, not the being told off. That the most important thing was to learn the material, not worry so much about the other things as ultimately what was required was to get good GCSEs, not the other stuff.
And you know what, as they mature, they do get better at these other things, if they take things on slowly and add them at the pace they can handle. DD is now packing her own bag, and managing herself going to school (mostly), although it also helps that they cut them a lot more slack in Sixth form. I can see that the next stages are going to be challenging, and we are going to have to take them slowly, but one just needs to be a bit patient. Sometimes you may just need to give them a bit more time to practice taking on each thing, slowly, slowly. But focussing on the equipment (eg PE kit) at the expense of the learning is a false economy. I would rather she learnt some maths even if she didn't have her pencils or PE kit there, even if she got a zillion detentions. Because if she gets behind in the maths and can't pass her GCSEs, then she will really struggle to be independent as an adult, no matter how perfect her pencil case may have been, or whether she had her PE kit and how few the detentions.

Dartsplayer · 19/10/2023 12:24

DS was the same. Always telling me he couldn't remember anything. He got diagnosed with dyspraxia the day after his last GCSE exam. Memory loss is one of the traits. He's still on the waiting list to be tested for Autism/Adhd. It might be worth taking him to the GP whilst he's still young as the waiting lists are long

FluthyFeaffers · 20/10/2023 11:29

Morning everyone,
Just thought I'd update as a few have asked how we're getting on!
In a nutshell, mornings are much better now because I have changed.
Honestly, reading this thread with messages from people with experience, ftom those with similar children, from those who themselves have ADHD, or were like this as kids, or just from those with good insight and perception to what's going on, did me so much good.
I went on a massive learning mission and now feel pretty well informed, though I feel I still have a lot, lot more to understand because I've learnt that the symptoms of ADHD are not black and white or clear cut. So I think it's going to be an ongoing journey together, which we will do hand in hand.
Anyway, back to the mornings......I took on board my DS's guidance and have been doing his suggestion of verbally giving him 1 task to do at a time, he goes and does it, then returns to me and I say well done darling that's great, and then I verbally give him the second task to do, he does it, returns to me, and repeat.
I can't say it's absolutely perfect and flawless. There are still mornings where I tell him a task to do (now go and brush your teeth) and he goes off to do it but then minutes later I hear him leaning out of his bedroom window commenting to his sister about the weather, and no, he hasn't brushed his teeth! He's gone off on a tangent to look at what the weather's like outside. But the difference is that after educating myself and seeing the positive results from my change of approach, I now manage the mornings so differently. So, for example, when he was leaning out of his window after I'd asked him to go and brush his teeth, before I would have called up the stairs from the hallway and said "DS why on earth haven't you brushed your teeth yet? You've been up there for ages and it's getting later and we're going to be late for school if you don't hurry up!" and at this point I wasn't cross or angry but I fully admit I was frustrated and my stress levels were rising and I know he would have picked up on this. I don't do that anymore. This time, I walked up in to his bedroom, said in a very calm voice "DS, remember you came up here to brush your teeth" and smiled at him reassuringly, he said "Oh yes! Sorry, I just noticed that it's a really beautiful morning so I wanted to look out of my window", then he closed the window, immediately went to the bathroom to brush his teeth, and whilst he was doing them I rubbed his shoulder and said "Well done DS. Now when you've done that, come back downstairs to me straight away and we'll get on with the next thing, OK?" Which is exactly what he did, and I verbally told him the next thing to do.
And this is how we do it now.
Before, I'd have said "Right, when you've finished your teeth, do your inhaler, don't forget to rinse your mouth out afterwards, get dressed, make your bed, and come down." And he'd come down 20 minutes later in his boxer shorts without having done at least 3 of the above steps.
I now break every single step down to 1 thing only.
With the brushing of his teeth, I was tempted to say "When you've finished your teeth, do your inhaler."
But I didn't, because I don't even do 2 step instructions anymore.
I waited until he returned to me after doing his teeth, then I told him to do his inhaler.
And it's so much easier for me to keep on top of what he's doing in the mornings now, because I only give him 1 instruction at a time, it means I know exactly what he should be doing, so if I see or hear that he's not doing that precise task, I'm on to it immediately and without delay I go to him and very gently/calmly remind him of what I'd asked him to do and he immediately goes and does it and we get back on track again.
But this is just to give an axample of what happens when he does go off track and forgets.
I would say 80% of the time he completes the single task/instruction I've given him within the time frame we've both agreed, and then he returns to me for the next thing.
This is a massive improvement, and it's a massive time saver, because he's getting things done on time. I could sing from the rooftops about this! Before, he'd go upstairs having been asked to do several things and I'd be downstairs seeing to DD (with SEN needs) then he'd reappear 20 mins later having done none of what I'd said to him to do.
It's working really well.
He is much calmer and happier in the mornings since we've been doing this, which is brilliant.
I actually really like this system because it means I am having much more interaction with him throughout the morning, which is lovely, and I feel much happier because I know that he's gone to do 1 thing and will be back in 5 minutes, or if he's not then I go and find him and help him get back on track, which he's doing without delay, so I feel like I'm staying on track with what he's doing, and we're staying on schedule with the time, which feels so much better, instead of that awful stress I felt before when I realised he wasn't doing any of the things he was supposed to be doing from the list I'd given him and the time was getting later.
The written list has gone.
More than 1 verbal instruction at a time has gone.
Every morning once he's done everything I stand with him and say "Right, let's go through your timetable together and see what lessons you've got and check together that you've got everything you need for the day" and he loves doing this together, he keeps saying "Thank you mummy, this is helping me so much". Whereas before I was saying "Remember to go and check your timetable and make sure you've got everything you need for the day", which I thought was being helpful but it wasn't actually working because I'd assume he would go and do it but then I'd find out after school that he'd forgotten something he needed because he forgot to check in the morning despite me telling him to.
Every morning, before we leave, I'm giving him a big hug and telling him he's done really well that morning, that I'm proud of him, and that I think he's amazing.
I'm giving him as much positive reinforcement as I can.
And we've left for school on time every day since we've changed our morning system! Which has made for a much more enjoyable journey to school, because there's no rushing involved.
I've now started using this method for everything where there's a time schedule involved - bedtimes, swimming lessons, meeting up with friends/family at a set time, etc. It's working really well.
He still struggles though. He told me that at school yesterday, he left his science class and walked to a different part of the building to his Maths class. On arrival, a different set of children were in there so he realised he'd got it wrong. He checked his blazer pocket for his timetable, where we'd put it in the morning before school, but he'd used it earlier in the school day and hadn't put it back in his pocket and couldn't remember where he had put it. Then he remembered that I had put a spare timetable in to his rucksack, which I'd laminated for him. But his rucksack was rammed with all sorts of other stuff - lunchbox, school books, pencil case, water bottle, trainers, etc. Through the course of the day of taking things in and out, the spare timetable had got buried down to the bottom underneath all his stuff. So he knelt down on the floor in the corridor, emptied everything out of his rucksack to get to his spare timetable, saw that he wasn't meant to be in maths, he was meant to be in English, panicked because the English classroom was in a different block and he was now going to be late to class (which he knows they get detentionsfor), quickly put all his stuff back in his rucksack and ran all the way to English, apologised to the teacher who said "Sit down and start writing this down from the board, and hurry up because we've already started". DS sat at his desk, opened his rucksack to get his pencil case out so he could start writing.....only to find it wasn't there. He'd left it on the floor of the corridor outside the Maths room where he'd emptied his rucksack.
He said by this point he felt very stressed and didn't know what to do. I talked it through with him and helped come up with strategies to use if that happens again.
I also suggested putting a laminated timetable on a toggle on the outside of his rucksack but he said he'd feel embarrassed in front of the others at school.

On Wednesday I had an appointment with GP to discuss DS (had to wait weeks for an appointment) and GP said referral for investigation in DS's symptoms would require referral to CAMHS which she said has a 2 year waiting list in our area. She said DS is not at crisis point and therefore would not be prioritised to be seen any sooner than that. I didn't know that CAMHS is the starting point for investigationin to ADHD or ASD or processing difficulties, I thought it would be a referral to a child development centre or to a Paediatrician. The GP's parting words were that the NHS is struggling with the amount of referrals to CAMHS and the system can't cope with the volume of children that need to be assessed. I left feeling deflated, I must admit.
I have asked the school for a meeting with the SENCo but she has been off sick for several weeks now, so I am awaiting her return.
I have spoken to his form tutor and she advised me to address my concerns to the SENCo when she is back.
In the meantime, we're working together as a team and I'm consistently telling him that I'm on his side.

OP posts:
PhantomUnicorn · 20/10/2023 11:38

Thats brilliant. I think you deserve a massive pat on the back yourself for managing to take everything on board and find out ways to help your DS.

You're a fantastic mum, and don't ever doubt yourself.

The stuff with CAHMS can be so frustrating, i have one diagnosed, and the other isn't, and we're in the same loop, so i'm just treating her as if she is, and have the school on board with doing so.

The SENCo thing at school isn't ok, i get that she is off sick, but if its been weeks and there is no sign of her returning, then you need to speak to his Head of Year, and try and get in touch with the Pastoral Team, fobbing you off with no help/support because the SENCo isn't in, isn't ok, and is a failure in their duty of care to your DS.
Don't be afraid to escalate up the chain, but Pastoral/HoY are best to try first.

sprigatito · 20/10/2023 11:40

You absolute star. I wish more neurodivergent kids had parents like you.

CatMattress · 20/10/2023 11:57

you're doing brilliantly! Both of you. As a suggestion - my DS has a little laminated timetable on the zip on the outside pocket of his bag, but we tuck it inside the pocket so it can't be seen, but because it's attached to the toggle it doesn't sink out of sight and is easy to hoist out. Maybe you can adapt that somehow?

For the future you could also try a laminate list of things he needs to do to get ready, or a flip chart with one thing on each page. He could shout out to you what the thing on the chart/list is (so you know what he's supposed to be doing and he's more likely to remember), go do it, then when he comes back he can flip to the next card or cross off the item with a board pen. It's a way of still managing him action by action, but it gives him a little bit of control and is something he could use as he gets older. This is maybe something to work towards rather than a right-now thing. I used to do it with post-it notes for DS, but it ran through them pretty quickly as he'd put them in the bin as he got done with each one.

leilani83 · 20/10/2023 12:03

This sounds very much like my DD who has just had a diagnosis for ADD. She can also focus very well on things when she wants to.

FluthyFeaffers · 20/10/2023 12:13

leilani83 · 20/10/2023 12:03

This sounds very much like my DD who has just had a diagnosis for ADD. She can also focus very well on things when she wants to.

Could I ask you who provided her diagnosis? Was it CAMHS, as my GP has advised?
And how long did it take?
I hope you don't mind me asking.
I'm very happy for you that you've received a diagnosis for your DD.

OP posts:
FluthyFeaffers · 20/10/2023 12:14

PhantomUnicorn · 20/10/2023 11:38

Thats brilliant. I think you deserve a massive pat on the back yourself for managing to take everything on board and find out ways to help your DS.

You're a fantastic mum, and don't ever doubt yourself.

The stuff with CAHMS can be so frustrating, i have one diagnosed, and the other isn't, and we're in the same loop, so i'm just treating her as if she is, and have the school on board with doing so.

The SENCo thing at school isn't ok, i get that she is off sick, but if its been weeks and there is no sign of her returning, then you need to speak to his Head of Year, and try and get in touch with the Pastoral Team, fobbing you off with no help/support because the SENCo isn't in, isn't ok, and is a failure in their duty of care to your DS.
Don't be afraid to escalate up the chain, but Pastoral/HoY are best to try first.

Thank you for your advice. I'll speak to HofY.xx

OP posts:
Chattycatty · 20/10/2023 12:14

Hi OP I've only just come across this thread but from your first post I thought ADHD you could have been speaking about my ds he has a diagnosis for adhd and autism.
He's in year 8 and I pack his bag for school everyday. I do want him to take responsibility but it's not as easy as that for him. The morning routine of breakfast, dressing, washing, hair and teeth brushing is enough so i pick up the extra for him.
The distraction no matter how annoying it is for us is genuine. I'm exhausted some days and feel like I am on repeat but they genuinely can't help it.
The time table thing we have it on a laminated card in his pencil case but also attached to a cord in the inside pocket of his bag. Also on his phone. I have found it helps if it can't be taken from its place helps because ds is known for putting things down and losing them.
One other point when you get your assessment ask if speech and language could he assessed as his comprehension and processes of language might be an issue. Best of luck

leilani83 · 20/10/2023 12:17

FluthyFeaffers · 20/10/2023 12:13

Could I ask you who provided her diagnosis? Was it CAMHS, as my GP has advised?
And how long did it take?
I hope you don't mind me asking.
I'm very happy for you that you've received a diagnosis for your DD.

It was through CAMHS but they referred her to The Owl Centre who carried out the assessment. It took a few years unfortunately.

MancBizMum · 20/10/2023 12:17

So pleased for you both, things sound so much better and you’re an amazing mum for taking the time to learn and help him the way he needs help and I’m sure he’ll have much happier teenage years than he otherwise would’ve done as a result :)

MatildaonMain · 20/10/2023 12:22

I will eat my hat if this doesn’t result in your son getting a diagnosis of ADHD but in the meantime you deserve a bloody big pat on the back for listening to advice and making such huge improvements.

FluthyFeaffers · 20/10/2023 12:25

Thank you all 🤗

OP posts:
MancBizMum · 20/10/2023 12:26

Just a thought as an add on to my previous reply - NHS referrals are definitely a nightmare (through no fault of their own I must add, they’re great and do the best with what they’re given!) do you or your partner have the option to sign up for private medical cover through your jobs? I know a lot of big companies offer the option and you can add on family members (I did it with dental cover a few years ago - just signed up for a year because I knew a family member and I both needed work done and then cancelled it again once we were sorted) I’m not sure if someone like Bupa etc might be able to offer help sooner and depending on the company it may be quite heavily subsidised…just a thought if you haven’t considered it already :)

Mostlyoblivious · 20/10/2023 15:12

What an amazing journey. I wish my Mum had been like yourself - we went the other way with it sadly which has had a lasting impact.

I agree escalate the school thing as they are failing in their duty of care to your DS (perhaps ask what CPD they are offering their staff on supporting those with ADHD, ASD etc..), and also, tell your GP yes to the CAMHS referral (whilst you research other NHS avenues in the meantime) and ignore the exceedingly wrong guilt trip. Also, investigate private diagnosis as there is a ridiculous backlog everywhere.

Can you attach a Ski lift pass holder in the inner pocket of his blazer for his time table?

DawnInAutumn · 20/10/2023 16:21

sprigatito · 20/10/2023 11:40

You absolute star. I wish more neurodivergent kids had parents like you.

Same. 🙂

pollymere · 20/10/2023 16:27

Your son's ADD is impacting his life! You can make a CAMHS referral yourself online. It doesn't need the school or GP. CAMHS will then contact the SENDCO for information. You can get a form tutor or teacher who knows your son well to complete the forms if you want. It really does speed up the diagnosis process.

toadasoda · 20/10/2023 16:38

OP I'd really recommend private OT sessions while on the CAMHS waiting list. They will tailor make exercises for him to improve focus and give you specific resources, or help make tools like visual schedules etc. I'm delighted for you and your son OP it sounds like you are making huge progress.

FindingNeverland28 · 20/10/2023 17:31

Well done OP. It sounds like you’re doing an amazing job. Can you put a copy of his timetable inside his pencil case or stick it inside each of his books?

icelolly99 · 20/10/2023 19:54

Loved reading your update @FluthyFeaffers well done to you. Your sons comment about noticing the view from the window was lovely. Please do push with help from the school.

RumbleMum · 20/10/2023 21:14

So pleased to hear your update, OP. What an absolutely brilliant Mum you are. As well as helping your DS to cope with the things he finds challenging, he’s learned that you’ll listen when he’s telling you he’s struggling and that you’re on his team. That will do incredible things for his psychological development - and the effects of that will be lifelong.

Scylax · 21/10/2023 01:29

So very happy to read your update and that both of you are so much happier :) it sucks about the wait for diagnosis, but honestly that diagnosis only really matters to get him the help he needs, and the school should care anyway! Definitely push them, but as people have said, you’re a star!

WiddlinDiddlin · 21/10/2023 04:58

So pleased for you both OP!

Timetable - get a bungee cord type thing, put an eyelet in the laminated timetable and clip inside a pocket so he can take it to look put it back but can't remove it from his bag!

Ask him if he can try to look at it as he puts away his stuff in the class as he's already going in his bag then.

Seems like you're doing really well though and the fact you can talk about situations now and what to do, how to approach them is brilliant!

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