To wish I’d had my kids the other way round

[Boyfirstthengirl]

I feel bad saying this but I am from a family where I’m the youngest and a girl/woman (obviously …) and I have an older brother. We get on well enough now and I do have nice memories of us together as kids, it isn’t all bad. But he was always so rough when we were young, would beat me up, call me names and so on.

To be honest I don’t think my parents dealt with it particularly well as they’d get angry with us both although to be fair to them I probably instigated some of it but my memory is selective!

Anyway, I have a boy who is 3 in January. I also have a baby daughter who is 3 months and history looks set to repeat itself … he hasn’t taken to her at all and tries to hurt her a lot. I am very worried about having horrible family dynamics. I want to manage this as best I can but struggling with DS - I can’t seem to get through to him, I know he’s jealous but I can’t think what else I can do.

I know I’ll get slated for this but everyone I know whose eldest child is a girl is excited and happy about the baby. I feel like she’s in a really vulnerable position growing up and I have to protect her but that’s also going to alienate my son

The kind of one to one time your son needs is sitting together reading a story on the sofa, or doing an activity at home of his choice, with your attention entirely on him. Dad can have the baby at that time. Just ten minutes is enough. It doesn't mean going to soft play or a stately home as a family - that kind of thing is nice but it's not one to one time.

I wouldn't be shouting at your 2 year old. That won't achieve anything. They can't control their impulses at that age so there's no point.

If he's nearly 3 he's old enough to have a conversation about it. Have you tried the "sometimes it's hard having a baby sister" line and letting him talk about it? Making out that you and him are on the same team can help, stuff like "I wish the baby would stop crying so that we can read a story, it's annoying isn't it" and also giving him a tiny bit of responsibility and trust.. get him to go and check the baby is ok, or I'm sure you've done all the usual stuff like asked him to choose the baby's clothes or pass the wipes or whatever. If he ever is kind to her then make sure it is mentioned that he was such a kind brother earlier when he did x y and z. It will be a slow process but you need to build the narrative that he's a fantastic, caring brother, and make him believe it, while at the same time acknowledging that it's not easy, that he feels jealous, or whatever it may be.

Give him some choices and some control too, if you know feeding is a difficult time for him then say "I am going to feed your sister now, afterwards we can can do x. While I am feeding her, what would you like to do?"

You do need to stop any physical violence and the only way to do that is by watching him closely and physically intervening every single time he does it, gently holding him away.

It will get easier as the baby gets older and is less dependent, also your son will get used to sharing you. But just be careful to avoid setting a pattern that your son is violent towards the baby or doesn't like his sister. He's just a normal 2 year old feeling rejected and worried and sad .

He isn’t interested in sitting, @WillowCraft . Ask him to choose an activity and he wouldn’t have a clue what to say. He is only two, as I’ve frequently been reminded. He does get one to one time. Thank you.

My son adored his baby sister and still does. They fight of course but he absolutely loves her and she's very feisty and completely stands up to him.

He's also a very hyper, full on kind of kid and was always kind of annoying her too to get a reaction - but it hasn't damaged their relationship.

When she was a baby we always referred to her as 'our baby', 'your baby'. He thought of her as his and I think that's helped.

This is not a boy / girl thing. My sister treated me horribly growing up.

And to add, I have older boy and younger girl children (teens) and they are all lovely to one another, they have each other's backs at all times.

You’re right the how to talk books are aimed at parents of slightly older kids. The Laura Markham webpages a PP referred you to are not. Actually she also has a book about siblings which does cover from the baby’s arrival. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Peaceful-Parent-Happy-Siblings-Fighting/dp/0399168451

OP it kind of feels like you want a magic bullet. There often isn’t one in parenting. Some people on this thread have said love bomb and empathise with your toddler. Others have said put him in time out. I’m in the former camp but tbh we’ve all had toddlers and newborns and they’ve all grown up into lovely kids and so probably what matters less is the approach you choose and what matters more is sticking with it and riding this out. But it is really nothing to do with your kids sexes and you really do need to let go of this idea of your son being your potential brother in miniature.

My brother was always horrible to me & I can't recall him ever being told off for hitting, name calling, unkind comments. He's still a twat. I have no idea why my parents never challenged him. I wouldn't allow mine to behave like that.

I had a son and then 2 girls. My son has always been loving and affectionate with his little sisters. My middle daughter is more rough! My son is gentle natured and my daughter is the opposite. I don’t think gender matters at all, but just the individual child.

I don't think it's because he's a boy. My older daughter loves her baby sister but she is rough as well! She gets so over zealous and I have to protect her from her. She's 5, and I thought she would be old enough to know her own strength etc but apparently not. I think it's partly an attention thing... he wants your attention and even if it's bad attention because you're having to tell him off, he is still getting it from you. I don't have many suggestions as I'm in the thick of it too. Most people say "make sure you have one on one time" with older child, but even that hasn't helped.

My DD was 2 when DS was born. As soon as he could sit up she took great joy in knocking him over and got incredibly angry with him taking any of her toys.

6 years later they get on incredibly well.

Dont write off your 2 year old yet - ImO it’s 90% down to parenting.

I had an older sister and it was hell! She bullied me relentlessly and was so cruel. To the point that she's given me life long issues. I also had an older brother, who wasn't that fussed about me in the very early years, but we grew closer the older we got. History doesn't have to repeat itself. You know what your parents did wrong and can make things different this time around.

@Boyfirstthengirl I don’t think the answer is to bundle your baby away but you obviously need to protect her from being hurt by your DS. Can you try talking to him when you’re going to feed DD and emphasise that afterwards you will do something together with DS? I’m sure you do this already but he is obviously jealous of the time and attention that DD gets from you when he’s had you all to himself. It’s totally natural for him to feel like he does but obviously hurting DD is completely wrong and unacceptable and you must stop it when it occurs. Does he help you with the baby at all? Fetching things for her like nappies, wipes etc. That can be good for the older sibling to think
that they are being helpful. It all helps to foster the relationship between them as siblings. Above all, don’t think the worst. I’m sure their relationship will develop and grow as they get older and hopefully be a good and loving one. I know it must be really hard at the moment but his little world has been turned upside down and he is trying to cope with this small interloper who he thinks has stolen his mummy! Give me loads of reassurance and hugs and kisses and praise him for his help and for being a good big brother. Good luck!!!

I'm 2 years and 4 months older than my brother. When he was born I was incredibly jealous and tried to hurt him quite a few times. As we grew older we used to fight a lot. So in our case we didn't fit the stereotype you have in your head because I was a girl and not at all happy about having a baby brother. We have a great relationship now as adults, in fact I don't really remember us fighting much after primary school age.

My son is 2 and is really sweet with his little sister 99% of the time (although there have been a few moments of jealousy and he has bitten her a couple of times).

I wouldn't get hung up on the fact that you had a boy first. Just help him to understand that you still love him just as much, he hasn't been replaced, and help him to see the good things about having a little sister.

Something which worked for us was to call her YOUR baby.
At that age, many kids have a younger sibling so I would say, ‘oh Peter’s baby has a cold today’, I saw sophie’s baby at the park’ et (the names being DS’s friends). The idea being that he would get shared ownership of his sister ! 😂.
One thing you are underestimating for later is the mental age. I have B, G, G, with 2 years between each, and feels like oldest girl is oldest child, and DS (age 12) about same mental age as his second sister. DD1 can run mental rings around her older brother, including to annoy him or wind him up, and that balances things out somewhat!

That age gap is one of the hardest tbh - at the beginning. Nothing to do with boy/girl or girl/boy or anything. My sister was that much older than me and she asked my mum if they could give me back. One of my favourite stories is from a friend whose nephew was born when her niece was about 2.5 - she was really unimpressed and said to my friend "that baby, Aunty Mary - what's his name again?"

Don't think that how your son feels now is how their relationship will be. This is now - a baby and a toddler with the toddler coping with his entire life being the center of your attention suddenly changing.

The most important thing you can do for your children and their relationship is not tolerate any bullying, nastiness, shoving around under the guise of "boys will be boys" or "we all went through it" or "they knock shit out of each other but if anyone outside the family says anything woe betide"

My parents never really tried to deal with my sister's relationship with me - when she would be bossy or controlling or downright mean. It is only from observing friends with siblings that I realised the relationship doesn't have to be like that. You can model and correct - you can make sure your children aren't mean to each other and get away with it, don't beat each other up, don't call names. I did. yeah they had epic fights at times (well the two girls did - the eldest boy is a sweetheart who wouldn't be bothered fighting with anyone) but there was zero tolerance for hitting or meanness. They all get on very well now as young adults.

OP, mind your baby, try to give a bit of extra time to your son, stop him doing anything destructive or mean - and keep stopping him - or her - when they get older.

I have a 9 year old daughter and 6 year old son and they try to murder each other regularly so it really doesn't matter either way op!

Then you choose the activity for him. We've got a 27 month age gap and it's really hard at first but it does get easier. A 2yo isn't capable of rationalising, empathising, or even loving a new baby really. From his point of view this baby has turned his world upside down and take the attention of the most important person in his world. He needs you to prove he's still safe secure and loved, I'm also not sure what a tonne of bricks is, but it won't help him feel loved, or to love baby. We went to multiple playgroups every day and avoided being in the house together for long. Sometimes someone would play with baby so I could help toddler feel seen, sometimes toddler would play so I could give baby some 1:1 time. Baby's nap time was special time with mummy for toddler. It's hard to do but we tried to quietly remove baby from danger, gloss over the bad behaviour and praise the good. We bought toddler a doll so he could change its nappy etc when baby was being changed. When feeding baby, I would cuddle toddler and read stories, sing songs or have a basket of toys for him. Baby spent a lot of time in the sling, it didn't do him any harm, yes I felt guilty at the time, but babies need closeness so his basic needs were met. It's better getting cuddles in a sling than being in a toddler warzone and potentially getting hurt. More importantly his older brother learned to love, not resent him, now they are 3.5 and 1.5, all the effort to foster a happy relationship has paid off as big brother feels big and important and likes to look after and entertain 1.5yo. The gentle positive reinforcement does work if you stick with it, but it's hard work and it takes a long time. Also toddlers love new reactions, however you react, if it's new he's going to keep testing until he's confident and bored of the result. Finally, I looked upon it as survival mode, my husband worked 4 on 4 off night shifts amd we have no family close by so most of the time it was just me. We did what we had to do for both babies (2yo is still really a baby) to get to the point where they were big enough to enjoy it more. Good luck!

I have an older girl and younger boy. Nearly 3y difference. DD did not like her little brother until he started walking and talking. They still manage to have at least 2 tiffs in the evenings after school and I have to defend him a lot from her (although, he is usually an instigator), but they really love each other now. It's really lovely to see.

Hi OP, sorry I haven’t read the whole thread so you may well have had some of these suggestions but I had a similar situation with my DS who was 19 months when his sister was born and instantly threw himself to the floor and cried as soon as she was bought home. Like you, my little niece was delighted when her younger sister was born and I very much had a “oh god, what did we do moment”.

My DS spent the first month completely ignoring DD’s presence and then every interaction afterwards was him attempting to drive his cars over her head, poking her in the eye, hitting her in the face. He hated her being fed and would come over to try and hit her or to sit on me whilst feeding. We had the additional problem that my DS’s speech and understanding was extremely limited so you couldn’t reason with him either. The only thing that worked was getting him involved with looking after the baby, so encouraging him to bring baby her bottle, her dummy, her muslin, gently helping to pat her on the back to wind her. Any good and gentle behaviour was highly praised. Any aggressive behaviour was met with a very loud and stern “NO”. Enough to make him run off and cry. I then completely ignored him until baby finished feeding and then we would go and make up.

DD is now 6 months and my DS has just turned two and he is generally very lovely with her now, he can say her name, he gives her kisses and tries to tickle her and my DD loves watching him and laughs at him playing. I feel much more confident about their relationship now than I did a few months ago. Your DS is just acting up because he’s jealous and not used to sharing your attention. You’re not letting him hurt your DD which is the most important thing and I’m sure he will calm down but three months is not that long for him to have got used to her yet.

It’s not about the sex, it’s about the personality of the child. Some kids are just like that unfortunately 🤷‍♀️

My friends son was like this with the baby sister (3 years gap) try and kick out on the sofa so he kicked her and throw teddies so they would hit her. She could see he did it deliberately and just told him not to do it. She's about 1 and a half now and he doesn't do it. We thought it was just jealousy as he got plenty of attention. Give it time. Just be consistent and tell him that could hurt her. Hopefully as she gets bigger he will stop.

My sister was an awful bully growing up and made my life actual hell. My parents didn't do anything about it, like you OP they blamed both of us or my mum would cry because it upset her when we argued so I felt guilty all the time and would do anything to stop my sister being awful to me, ie I just let her bully me. I wish I'd had an older brother like my friends cos their brothers stuck up for them and looked after them. I remember at school my friend and I were being teased my some older kids, my sister watched on and laughed, Jenny's brother heard what was happening and came over and hit the mean boys and rescued us ♥️ in my experience it was always the big brothers who looked out for their sisters.

I have a younger brother and he was rough in his play from being a toddler. I think it's just the way boys develop?
Most of my childhood memories are of being in trouble because I didn't stop him being rough and consequently hurting people. We didn't get on growing up and barely are in contact now.
i don't think it really matters which way round the children are. It's about making sure that they're both brought up to be respectful of others and that you teach your boy to realise the boundaries so he doesn't hurt people.

I will preface this by saying I haven't read the full thread, just read your responses OP. I have a 9 nearly 10 year old son and a 5 year old daughter, and I absolutely understand why you have concerns about rough play. A couple of strategies that worked for us; get nursery on board, see if they can get him playing in the role play corner with a baby doll, what phrases do they use to encourage gentle play "kind hands" must have been said a million time in our house! Don't say no I can't do X or y because of the baby, say "Yes I'd love to play trains with you once Baby goes for a nap/Daddy's home from work". Is he the sort of little person who loves a job? my son was, he became my chief wipe fetcher every nappy change and I always praised him for being an "Amazing Big Brother", pretty soon that became how he saw himself, he loves teaching his little sister new things that he's good at, and the look on his face when she took her first steps holding his hands as a toddler were priceless. Also don't worry if he doesn't listen at 2, how will he listen at 8, they do a lot of maturing and growing especially once they start school.

I’ve got a 4 year old girl and 18 month old boy and the pair fight like cat and dog, she won’t leave him alone so he gets annoyed and bites her, they are forever wrestling each other usually because of a toy, and any screen times ends up with someone crying because they don’t want to watch the same thing.