To wish I’d had my kids the other way round

[Boyfirstthengirl]

I feel bad saying this but I am from a family where I’m the youngest and a girl/woman (obviously …) and I have an older brother. We get on well enough now and I do have nice memories of us together as kids, it isn’t all bad. But he was always so rough when we were young, would beat me up, call me names and so on.

To be honest I don’t think my parents dealt with it particularly well as they’d get angry with us both although to be fair to them I probably instigated some of it but my memory is selective!

Anyway, I have a boy who is 3 in January. I also have a baby daughter who is 3 months and history looks set to repeat itself … he hasn’t taken to her at all and tries to hurt her a lot. I am very worried about having horrible family dynamics. I want to manage this as best I can but struggling with DS - I can’t seem to get through to him, I know he’s jealous but I can’t think what else I can do.

I know I’ll get slated for this but everyone I know whose eldest child is a girl is excited and happy about the baby. I feel like she’s in a really vulnerable position growing up and I have to protect her but that’s also going to alienate my son

In what way is it less helpful than telling her she’s worrying about nothing, that it’s ok for him to hit because someone’s older sister hit them and it was all fine?

Some posters are accusing her of gender stereotyping. Now that’s unhelpful.

Literally no one has said it’s ok for him to hit the baby. We’re all saying that this isn’t because he’s male but because he’s 2.

Gender stereotyping a 2yo is unhelpful!

The gender stereotyping is not that it’s more likely that a boy will hit (although since we know men are more likely to be violent, it’s not unreasonable for the OP to be concerned - I’m unclear as to why some posters are rushing to say it’s wrong for her to wonder).

Anyway, the real problem for a sibling - the “stereotyping”, if you will - is that when an older brother does hit, it causes far more harm than when an older sister does.

There are only 2 and a half years between these children. Yes, it's not great if a ten or twelve year old boy is hitting his eight or ten year old sister, but neither is it the case that he's necessarily going to cause more damage than if it was girls of similar ages doing this. Nor is it the same as a child that age hitting a much smaller child of five or six (as might occur if there was a bigger age gap.

If he's still walloping his sister when he gets to 15, then the OP will indeed have a problem on her hands, but tbh the problem wouldn't be that much better if the boy was 15 and the girl was 17. And hopefully the OP will have stepped in before it gets to this point to ensure her DD's safety.

The most important thing imo is to have a zero tolerance approach to sibling-on-sibling violence.

The most important thing imo is to have a zero tolerance approach to sibling-on-sibling violence.

I couldn’t agree more. I also do agree with a lot of what @Coughingdodger has said, though. I know there are girls built like Miss Trunchbull and boys who are elfin creatures but generally an older boy can hurt a younger girl more than the other way around.

Hopefully it will not come to that, and despite the bonkers posts there has been a lot of genuinely really helpful stuff here so thank you. I will try to send a few PMs as I know some of you will have spent a long time posting and it is appreciated!

Funnily enough, I just assumed you were going to say your children were the other way round and you wished you'd had an older son/younger daughter - in my family the 'lore' is that this is the 'better' way round, as boy children are more chilled out and less domineering, whereas older sisters are bossy/over involved.

This certainly seems to be borne out in my family - I have an older brother who is my best mate, was pretty nice to me when we were kids but also left me to it a lot of the time - and in the next generation - only one older sister/younger brother and she makes his life hard work at times, very bossy and quite physical! The older brothers with younger sisters play when they're interested and wander off and do their own thing when they aren't.

I'm the eldest (male) and was always kind and caring to my 3 years younger sister as a child. It's about the child, not the sex.

@Boyfirstthengirl I've been following along and can't really see any of the bonkers posts you're referring to? Unless you're talking about people who disagree that your two year old will inevitably turn out to be a violent bully terrorising his little sister just because he's a boy, and just because he's currently a toddler who doesn't listen.

Absolutely this. I have 4 children. 2 boys, 2 girls. Older two are adults now and younger two are 16 and 17. I can honestly say they’ve never hit each other. Yes they occasionally bickered but never have any of them hit each other.

I’ve asked a couple of times now but no one’s answered that I can see - meant genuinely - what this coming down like a tonne of bricks looks like?

It was me who said it. It means to respond extremely firmly and rapidly each and every single time. Loudly and clearly state what he did wrong and that you won’t tolerate it. Remove the younger child immediately and make an ostentatious fuss of her and her alone (the very opposite of what he would want to achieve).
Do it ad nauseam no matter how often it happens or how tired you feel.

When he is calm, draw him back in, make a fuss of him and praise him. One to one time etc.

When your DD is older let her know that she can come to you if there is any violence and you’ll put a stop to it. You won’t take a “boys will be boys” attitude to physical violence. (Likewise, if your DS is ever unhappy about anything he can talk to you and you’ll always listen and hear him).

Personally I don’t feel that gentle chats are helpful in the moment. Just say NO!!!! and remove the younger child immediately.

Gentle chats imo can and should happen only when everyone is calm.

Sorry, op. But you're projecting. There's nothing saying it'll be the same dynamic. My DS was 3 in July and I had his brother last January (so ds1 was 2 and a half). Ds1 loved his brother from the beginning and still does today. Give it time. Lots of patience and extra attention with your DS , he'll get used to the dynamic. Don't compare him to your brother.

If you read about the psychology of this, your children have the best potential. Girls have an advantage and eldest siblings have an advantage. That means an eldest sibling who is a girl has 2 advantages and a younger sibling who is a boy has no advantages. The girl is therefore likely to pull far ahead and the boy get left behind. An older sibling who is male and a younger sibling who is female both have one advantage each and therefore are a lot more equal.

Google it, it's interesting.

For help specific to your situation, maybe speak to the HV about concerns and things that might help?

@Coughingdodger - I don’t think it was, it was one of the first posts on here. In any event, I have tried what you’ve put above and it makes no difference. He just laughs. Likewise - I mean, this might end up sounding as if I’m being a bit arsey and I promise I’m not - as I’ve said I do agree with you on some stuff - but saying no? That’s pretty much the first port of call, surely!?

Apologies, it was you! I didn’t realise you replied early in the thread. So yes, that doesn’t appear effective for us!

Yes, I know it’s not easy.
Does he laugh when you immediately remove the baby and yourself from his company - going to another room if necessary - and focus exclusively on the baby?

Say “the baby is frightened by what you just did so now I have to take her away to focus on her”

Haven't RTFT but my 3 year old girl is incredibly rough and agressive both with us and her baby brother so I don't think gender makes a difference! That's not the issue.

I disagree that you come down like a ton of bricks. Although your DS is "3 in Jan", he's actually only 2 and will have regressed with arrival of his sister. He's a baby who does not understand the depths of his emotions. He has no other language to tell you he's frightened you love this new baby more than him.

You are in the thick of it but shouldn't feel like this small moment in time will last for ever. And it needn't set the tone of their relationship for ever either.

My instinct is a bit different . Your DS thinks everything in his life has got a bit worse since DD arrived. the fact that it's worst when you are feeding shows that he wants to know he's not been replaced in your affections. He's seeking closeness which it's hard for you to give at that precise moment. Let him be the baby too. definitely don't require him to be the "big boy" unless that's what he wants or responds to. don't make a big thing of his actions. say no and remove the baby from the situation. distract him and be a step ahead where possible.

When feeding can you line up special things to do with him - read books, snacks, tv show. if possible get him to sit near you/next to you. (Although appreciate that means he's close to DD so you can only do that if he's prepared to engage in something "special" that you can do with him). Alternatively, get him engaged in something before feeding starts so you get chance to sit.

And be as consistent as poss with DS routine - naps, snacks, meals, trips to run about. So that you minimise opps for him to be overwhelmed.

Don't feel bad if he's getting a larger share of your attention when he's around. DD will be fine and she'll get all your attention when DS at nursery. Once she's a bit more fun (smiling etc) there will be more chance for them to develop a relationship.

It's a phase and it will pass.

Sorry OP you are getting some unkind comments.

Of course you are going to feel concerned but remember you survived from having an older brother! I have two children 4 years apart and they have a great relationship but my friends had some problems with their child jumping on their baby, to the point she couldn't leave the room for 2 seconds- in the end it just stopped because she wasn't the novelty anymore (friend tried all sorts) maybe try and distract him or give him positive feedback- if he does it when your feeding her, make him feel grown up or apart of it, fetch items, get himself a healthy snack if feeding is done at different times and he feels he's missing out.

It feels he is looking for a reaction, which is difficult because its not like you can ignore him but again maybe distracting him because it occurs?

@Coughingdodger yep. You can say those sorts of things until you’re blue in the face: it has no effect at all. I have tried to be stern and no nonsense and he just thinks it’s hilarious and seems to egg him on more if anything.

To be honest DS generally does seem to differ from most MN toddlers as he couldn’t care less about TV or snacks.

He ignores you when you say it. What happens when you follow through? Do you actually go to another room “to comfort the baby” and leave him on his own for a while?