To wish I’d had my kids the other way round

[Boyfirstthengirl]

I feel bad saying this but I am from a family where I’m the youngest and a girl/woman (obviously …) and I have an older brother. We get on well enough now and I do have nice memories of us together as kids, it isn’t all bad. But he was always so rough when we were young, would beat me up, call me names and so on.

To be honest I don’t think my parents dealt with it particularly well as they’d get angry with us both although to be fair to them I probably instigated some of it but my memory is selective!

Anyway, I have a boy who is 3 in January. I also have a baby daughter who is 3 months and history looks set to repeat itself … he hasn’t taken to her at all and tries to hurt her a lot. I am very worried about having horrible family dynamics. I want to manage this as best I can but struggling with DS - I can’t seem to get through to him, I know he’s jealous but I can’t think what else I can do.

I know I’ll get slated for this but everyone I know whose eldest child is a girl is excited and happy about the baby. I feel like she’s in a really vulnerable position growing up and I have to protect her but that’s also going to alienate my son

YES @Coughingdodger

Sorry, but how many times!?

Ah this was similar to what I was suggesting, removing yourself and giving him no attention.
How fast do you come back to him? Do you actually go to a different room and close the door? ( or put him in his room)?

This. you enable an environment where DS does not hurt his sister. It's all in your control. Definitely do not let him get away with more when it comes to physicality / violence because 'boys will be boys'.

One of the most effective actions can be giving all your attention to the hurt DC. 'oh you poor thing' pick up give a big cuddle -all while ignoring the older one.

Give older one lots of praise and attention at other times especially when helping eg' can you fetch the baby wipes for mum'

I found I could read to the older one while feeding the younger one which gave older DC some attention

Also found things improved when younger DC started moving and they could play together

Yes, I’ve read that about giving attention to the hurt child but unfortunately hasn’t been effective (have also tried if he’s pushed or been rough to another child in other contexts.) It just doesn’t seem to make any difference.

Don't be a dick OP. People are trying to help you. Venting your frustration at them isn't fair. If you don't find a poster helpful just stop engaging, and they can stop wasting their time.

It isn’t being a dick to express a bit of exasperation at answering the same question three times!

Just don't then. If you feel like she's not listening, stop talking. You're not obliged. Actually she's asking slightly different questions each time, your answers are vague so she's seeking clarification. You're being snappy. And honestly, there's no need. The joy of MN is it's not real life - you can ask for input, take what's useful, ignore what's not. Or, you know, have a go at someone who's taking an interest in the problem you've asked for help with, being pretty constructive, and telling other people who've been much harder to cut you some slack.

I don’t want to make comments re thread police, but I’ll answer as I see fit and so will Coughing, I am sure. I doubt she is in need of therapy because I put yes in capital letters.

2 years between mine and they couldn't be trusted a baby until they were older. Babies are boring to toddlers and there is jealously. Don't force them together wait until they are older and can engage with each other

You're massively projecting- I'm sorry about your relationship with your brother.
There is no reason for history to repeat itself.

Stop talking about "the baby" always speak to your DS about "his/your little sister"
show him photos of him as a baby getting all the things your DD has now & talk about him as a baby & how this boring part of babies doesn't last forever & one day his little sister will be more fun.
remind him "gentle hands" (not stop hurting/hitting as they hear/respond to the verb)
Make sure you have a book or game he likes to play with you where you feed DD & only read that book/play that game when she feeds
talk to him about how hard it it to have a new little sister - tell him it's ok to be sad/cross & discuss what he can do when he feels like that (hit a pillow, cuddle you etc)
assume best intentions all the time - he's hitting her, maybe he just wants to know she'll react. (My toddler hurt my newborn once because she was scared he wasn't moving - showing how rarely my babies sleep 🤣)

I think you would find Unconditional Parenting, Playful Parenting & How to tak so your kids will listen really good books.

I grew up hating my brother - my kids get along really really well & I. Can now see how my mother tries to play them off against each other... your new family can be different from the one you grew up in.

I always see that how to talk recommended on here - not sure it’s really any good for children any younger than 4. I know it is claimed to be for ages 2-6 but it really isn’t very helpful.

No one is talking about ‘the baby’ and I’m not sure where you’ve got that from, to be honest. It is a bit exasperating when people claim that you’re doing something ‘wrongs that actually you aren’t doing!

It’s a tricky stage and I’m absolutely adapting. I’m sure we’ll come through it all right. I do think it’s been well established I am guilty of projecting.

OP
what I was trying to say, not very well, is that you need to make sure that the consequence is meaningful.
so remove yourself/ your attention for longer. Slowly he will learn.

I know - it’s annoying when it seems people aren’t listening. But not everything works for every child, and I have never found anything that stops DS when he’s hell bent on something.

Every child is different OP. Your son is not your brother. Influence, upbringing and background will play a big role here.

Seriously OP he’s 2. I don’t know what sort of magical solution you’re expecting. The advice you’ve been given really is what you need to do, but it’s not a one and done thing. Surely you know that from other issues that crop up with him? Telling him to hold your hand multiple times, stop jumping on the sofa, not to bite the toothbrush etc. it’s just part of him being young, his impulses are still developing along with him learning to establish and push boundaries.
His sibling has only been in his life for a relatively short period of time, he’s still learning how to navigate it and he will continue to learn as their interactions change over the next year.
You still haven’t answered anyone asking you about the sort of 1 on 1 time you carve out for him but you really do need to prioritise it. He needs to understand that you’re still his mum and you can still do the same things with him. Always having the baby on you doesn’t show him that.

I think you have some good advice here about addressing the issue in the moment. Have you built in any time with just your son?

Just reading your update OP, I just want to reassure you, that it's likely this is a phase... I know it doesn't help in the moment, but moving the baby away and keeping them safe and not giving attention to the negative behaviour - hopefully he'll get bored quickly!

It passed for mine 😊. Don't get me wrong, there are times she loves a little too hard, but I'm always nearby to make sure neither are hurt.

It's an experience going from 1-2 for sure! You are doing a great job ❤️

Oh and repeating 'she's only 2, she's only 2' in my head a million times a day... helps!

DS is 22 months older than DD.

DS used to be v unkind to DD. As DD grew, she had payback. One memorable day 19 month old DD put 3 yr old DS in a headlock because again he'd taken one of her toys.

When DD turned 2, they finally "got" each other. They've been best friends ever since. It was so lovely watching them support each other through both primary and secondary school. DS is 19. I can't remember the last time I heard them argue... Will have been at least 5 years ago. Just tonight DD cooked dinner for herself and DS.

So my advice is go with your gut. Keep being kind. Keep holding the boundary. Keep being firm. Keep being mum.

I'd just separate them physically as much as possible for the moment tbh. Buy a raised bouncer or bassinet for your sitting-room if you can to keep the baby away from the toddler. Hauck do one or Chicco have a couple. The other thing you could do is put the baby's playmat in a playpen, so the baby can play safely on the floor while your toddler is about. That might give you a bit of breathing space so you're not always having to bat your DC1 away from DC2.

YABU in the sense that order doesn’t matter - my younger sister used to attack me (bruises, drawing blood, all sorts) without provocation because she had a “feisty” personality and my parents used to tell me off for it because I was older and should know better (which still makes no bloody sense to me). Similarly my best friend at school had a younger brother who beat the crap out of her. Parents useless and just insisted he was “angry”.

You don’t sound like you’re ignoring it and he’s still young. I’m just saying that order of kids is meaningless, it’s their temperament that counts.

I have one of those Velcro babies who doesn’t want to be put down unfortunately, lovely as she is.

@Hufflepods to be honest I don’t know what you’re getting out of this. It does feel like you’re berating me by endlessly repeating facts: that DD is with me all the time and that things need to be repeated. With DS it is very simple: he either complies or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, you don’t get very far.

Is your issue the practical stopping ds hurting dd? Like she’s getting hurt so much that there’s an issue, or the management of stopping it happening is just not logistical possible?

Or is it that you are expecting to be able to change his behaviours and know they are wrong?

Im guessing it’s both, but wondering which felt most important and also which you find hardest to find strategies for?

It was your parents. They allowed that.

My first born son doesn’t bully his younger sister. (2 year gap) and he’s gentle with his younger brother (3 year gap). My DD can be a bit of a madam though but we don’t tolerate shitty behaviour at all between siblings. It’s totally not acceptable in my house and it doesn’t need to be normal.