To think that disabled people are hated?

[AmericasfavoritefightingFrenchman]

Yes, I know that it was apparently very uplifting when I was planning a party for my disabled DS and his classmates from special school. When I was putting in all the hard work by myself to make it happen it was admirable and my DS and his friends were adorable.

But there have been so many threads here complaining about the way disabled children use up resources- in school, in clubs, in sports. So much hatred for the fact that disability is sometimes, inadequately, accommodated. So much blame and disdain for parents of disabled kids. So much anger at the unfairness and injustice(!) being suffered by the ‘normal’ kids, the functioning kids, the able kids when they are forced to encounter a disabled peer.

AIBU to think that this is people showing their true colours; that in fact the world is as full of hatred for disabled people as I’ve always feared?

I agree with you
I have Cerebral Palsy and have been classed as unable to work for years
I live on benefits which I have had to jump through hoops for and be grateful for what I receive( which I am of course, but feel unworthy)
I feel we are seen as irrelevant and despite the equality act of 2010 are still far than equal
I am not resentful or entitled( I have read threads which assume this)

Where is the sneering? The PP claimed that PGT was a "standard" test in the US. It isn't, its a pre implantation embryo test in the lab available for IVF patients. ie not useful for the vast, vast majority of pregnancies.

It also can't predict autism - at best it can identify some genes which correlate with (not cause) autism. Its only really useful for conditions which are both fully genetic in cause, and relatively simple genetically (and are wholly negative in outcome).

The idea that this is a simple test to roll out to the masses or that its currently widely used is nonsense.

I'm not digging back several pages for it, life's far too short. No it's not merely a pre-implantation test and the fact she was off about some details is irrelevant, it doesn't explain the deeply strange reaction to it.

Doesn't in any way explain the assertion of some posters that the majority of ND people in the past were hidden away in institutions which is what that poster suggested as an explanation for the apparent rise in ND people.

Increased diagnostic rates can explain why more people are diagnosed now but not the assertion that previously, the same rate of people would have been hidden away in institutions and that's why it seems more common now.

If simply was not happening ever that 20-40% of the childhood population which a lot of the stats would say now qualify as 'SEN' were hidden away in institutions.

Never. Even a hundred years that was not happening. And I went to school in the 90s and with hindsight, could think a very small number of the pupils I was in school with would be ND, including me.

And in the 90s the overwhelming number of pupils who would now be deemed as possibly having SEN were in school and it would never be even contemplated that they would be in an institution. For MOST SEN kids in the past, it wouldn't have happened.

So increased awareness, increased diagnosis or the myth that 'in the old days they'd be hidden away' is not an adequate explanation for the sheer number involved.

Or the sheer number that apparently can't be accommodated or need adjustments in mainstream schools or life because of their extreme needs or behaviors.

It really is a very relatively recent thing that a significant minority of a class have SEN and increasing year on year as any educator or SENCO will tell you.

There are few different issues here.

SEN doesn't mean ND, disabled or even diagnosed with anything at all. SEN refers entirely to an additional level of educational support needed in order to access the curriculum and make progress. For example, you can have a wholly neurotypical child with no condition or disability who is not making expected progress in maths and so goes onto a support plan with a package of resources and activities to support them. This child will be classed as having SEN.

SN refers to children with special needs, i.e., a disability or long term condition that constitutes a disability.

Although there is a lot of overlap between the two, a child can have SEN with no SN and the reverse is also true, a child can have SN with no corresponding SEN. A child can also move on and off the SEN register several times over the course of their school career depending on needs and progress.

There are more children with SEN now as current practices focus on identifying needs as early as possible, research has shown that early intervention is key to improving outcomes. If we see a child struggling or not making expected progress then we have several internal and external pathways to assess this and get support in place. I've had children on the SEN pathway due to issues such as being behind in reading to the detriment of their overall ability to learn, support includes reading with them daily, additional phonics support and the use of packages such as Comic Phonics. They will count in the schools overall SEN figures.

Another factor accounting for the increase of children with SEN in mainstream schools is lack of funding and availability for specialist placements. You need an EHCP with named place to attend a special school and this government has told LAs to actively reduce the number of EHCPs granted alongside closing down specialist provision and fucking over education to the point that recruitment and retention of specialist staff is at an all time low. Mainstream is the default now and so yes, this will lead to an increase of children with SEN and SN in mainstream provision.

Finding the right school when you have a child with SEN and/or SN is key so if a school has a good reputation for working with these children then word will get around and more parents will send their children with SN/SEN there. My school is known for being good at support and so we have a high percentage of these children, another local school has a poor reputation and so has a lower percentage as parents won't send their DC there because they know the support provided is shit.

Many disabilities, SEN and ND conditions have a strong genetic link. The world isn't fully inclusive but it is a lot better than it was say 50 years ago. As a result, people with disabilities, SEN and/or SN are now more likely to meet a partner and have children, very often that partner has similar needs - I read an article a while ago talking about the rise of the internet allowing people to connect who, previously, never would have and a fair amount of them go on to have relationships and produce children.

Also "in the past" school and life in general would have been a lot easier for children with certain ND - shorter school days, emphasis on playing out so running around in the fresh air, desks in rows all facing the front with very few distractions, less on the curriculum, fewer standardised tests, less academic pupils streamed off into apprenticeships or vocational courses, etc. Safeguarding and attendance weren't what they are today either so it was easier for some children to just not attend school or to drop out entirely.

Many children, who today would be found to have SEN because of better identification, would be classed as "naughty" or "disruptive". I remember a boy at primary school who would scream on the corridor floor every morning after separating from his mum, regularly soiled himself, would throw his whole dinner plate on the floor if the food was touching, would run away and hide during music or tech or PE after screaming at us all for being too noisy, and was always shouting out answers or making personal comments or ill-timed jokes. He was constantly in trouble for it and most days would end up outside the head's office for being naughty. Nowadays we recognise that these things aren't typical and we would be making referrals for assessment of needs.

I think people have forgotten how quickly things change. My dad would be 90 and he talked about in his small rural class there was a boy who didn’t wear shoes, cause he had none, boys who only came when they weren’t needed on the farm and the how bad he felt for the girl who did as well as him because she left at 14 to work in the factory. None of that was even commented on, never mind looked in to. You could easily be functionally illiterate and still earn a living. You could work in solo roles without any “customer facing” element. And you could live with family your entire life. All of that would hide a multitude of disabilities. What’s that meme about “all these disabilities these days, never mind your grandad that had the same thing for lunch every day of his life and couldn’t wear a cardigan?

@Pollyputhekettleon are you suggesting compulsory sterilisation then?

I believe I was advocating the return of either witch burning or dunking earlier. I can't keep track at this point.

So basically you don't even know what the poster said.

The poster claimed that PGT is a standard test available to all in the US. That was bullshit.

Its a pre implantation test which may be used in IVF ie it has to be done before the embryo is implanted back into the woman after fertilisation. So its limited to the subset of pregnancies conceived through IVF (and with the money to pay for it).

And of course you then have to decide what to do if you find a gene associated with a disability but not able to predict either the level of risk or the extent of a condition if it did occur. All of which is why this kind of screening and the required IVF is only offered to couples who can conceive naturally if they have a serious hereditary and life limiting condition of the type where you seriously consider having children at all without screening.

This - all of this. There is some mad behaviour being flaunted in society right now, just utter ignorance. It was always lurking but now we are in the midst of a covid disablism hangover that just won't quit.

The stupidity of all of the disablist nonsense that is ramping up right now is that most of the population are going to get elderly and infirm and need the support of the village. Society is doing the opposite of what's for it's own good - the measure is the treatment of the vulnerable for an excellent and intelligent reason!

It's all down to money and Tory politic - distract from tax havens by pointing at the most vulnerable and blaming them for the lack of resources. The constant benefit bashing threads on here are so predictable and regular now they seem entirely AI driven on a repeating loop, it's sad that people are being manipulated into believing and then acting accordingly.

We left a show before the second half this week because wheelchair bound teen DD breathes too noisily for Joe Public. People are dicks.

Mumsnet please bring back This is My Child and a return to being the change we need to see.

@Pollyputhekettleon - what she said was that there was PGT testing as standard in the US and that's why there are lower rates of autism there than in the U.K.

Oh - and imagine how much money the NHS would currently have if we had fewer autistic people who had been weeded out via PGT.

I kind of wish the post hadn't been deleted because it was so fucking batshit.

Like many autistic children, beyond a dx, my autistic child costs the NHS very little. Discharge post the dx which is completely standard. Doesn't play sport so no injuries. Doesn't go anywhere or see anyone so less opportunity to catch illness that may require treatment. Eats a very limited diet so dental is cheap.

I'm kind of struggling to see the point the poster was making to be honest. Maybe she meant that the cash spent on TAs could be repurposed into paying for more nurses or something?

But if needs are met they won’t be violent. Ds was violent in year 2, his ehcp by year 3 Meant his needs were met. He is now in year 9 in a mainstream school and is the polar opposite of violent

YY OP Look at the way disabled people who couldnt wear masks were treated.

Well, I'm disabled, luckily (?), in that it's not involving mental health, purely physically, and have been since I was 40.

I'm also a "boomer" and living in a HA property, one bedroom larger than people think I should have🙄

So, I'm apparently getting mega bucks in disability payments and a free car. No I'm not.

I've probably never worked, and am a scammer. I have worked and I'm not.

i'm a boomer that has made young people poor because I've sucked out all of the wealth. No.

I'm living in a HA that young people need more than me, so I'm depriving them. No.

I get my rent paid - no, I pay the full amount. I don't claim means tested benefits.

I live tax free - I wish.

I don't need to use a disabled parking bay - I do really.

That's just a few of the things lol 🙄

If anyone wishes and can take on my health, to have this marvellous life, then bring it on...🥴

That’s great for him, however do you think it’s fair that the other children were subjected to his violence for a whole year until his needs were met?

Was it fair to him it took so long for needs to be met?

your basically arguing for young people to be complete written off instead of getting the right support in place. In the long run which is better to society?

I am the parent of a child who is blind. I now consider it an act of hate whenever anyone: without a Blue Badge parks in a designated Blue Badge parking space, even if only for the usual ‘I’ll only be five minutes’; parks their lump of precious metal on the pavement to avoid any dings; occupies the priority spaces on buses or trains when they have no need; jumps over my DD’s long cane (white stick to the uninformed) because, you know, gotta get there 30 seconds faster; lets their dog on a long lead tangle themself up in my DD’s long cane; and, finally, sees an obviously blind child walking towards them with a long cane and still continues to play a game of pavement jeopardy (if I had control of my DD’s cane, I would have it mounted with skin-shredding spurs and I would take no prisoners!)

@BrontëParsonage my son uses a wheelchair, oh how I would love to fit a cattleprod to the front. Some people are just dicks.

@Pollyputhekettleon if you want to know what my thread is about you could do my the courtesy of reading and understanding my OP and further clarification posts. I believe that disabled people are hated- that’s why I said so. It seems that many PPs have also been led to that conclusion.

If you feel that our conclusion is incorrect maybe you could take some concrete actions to demonstrate your compassion and inclusivity to the people around you day to day and be the start of changing the narrative.

I hear PPs who are saying it’s more likely to be indifference, ignorance, inconvenience or othering rather than outright hatred. I think I once would have said the same. The trouble is, if it’s ignorance or fear- would you not learn to do better though exposure to the ‘other’? If you don’t learn, I think those attitudes do end up being expressed as hatred. If it is frustration with the system, should that not engender compassion? Would you not take care to ensure that the disabled person didn’t mistake the object of your frustration?

@cubic I hear you! I find myself posting endlessly on the disabilities threads in the hope that I might prick the consciences of those who may inadvertently be guilty of all the things I mention in my post. I’m sorry to say that I feel like we are fighting a losing battle so maybe we would be better off harnessing our energies to produce a line of weaponised disability aids?! My DD and I have already put the blueprint together for a long cane with fast-action loading ankle-slicing spurs. We present it in our best Q voice (AKA Judi Dench) because we are #verysadeventhoughwethinkwearefunny

It's quite possible for two things to be unfair at the same time. No she's not arguing anyone should be written off. Pretty much everyone would agree that there shouldn't be delays in providing children with the care they need to not be violent. Meanwhile, back in the world we actually live in, it wasn't fair for other children to be subjected to his violence for so long and it wasn't fair for him not to be helped for so long.

Some disabled people can come across as entitled, like the poster who wanted her neighbour to get a different job and car so she wasn’t disturbed. Just as normal people can be entitled.

This is a very big part of the problem: people automatically referring to able-bodied people as 'normal' without even stopping to think what that says about how they classify disabled folk.