To think having XL bullies around children is child neglect?

[Eaglemom]

To think that parents who have XL Bullies in the house with children should be investigated for child neglect. Its the same as leaving a child with a loaded gun to play with. What the hell is wrong with people that are willing to take this chance with their children’s lives?

@SleepingStandingUp But the difference is that the risks of sharp knives, kettles and painkillers can be easily managed: keep them out of reach of small children and teach them about the dangers so that once they are big enough to reach them they understand the need for caution. You can't just put a 60kg dog on a high-up shelf, so it's pretty irrelevant as a comparison.

So, those in favour of a ban and cheering Sunak and Braverman on in their rushed and ill-thought out (totally unthought out) rash promises and statements...

How are you all feeling about the massive increase in potentially banned XL Bully types being dumped in the streets by the ignorant twats, criminal breeders and general lowlives that caused them to be a problem in the first place.

I mean, I know I personally feel SO much safer with big unsocialised, badly trained dogs being dumped in public... and of course when details of how an exemption register and certification will actually work, and the cost implications become clear, we will see more dumped dogs running the streets, panicked and uncontrolled.

It's just fucking marvellous, it really is.

For those with the 'all xl bully owners are vicious morons' attitude - absolutely not, I have lost count of the number who have contacted me via various channels in the last 10 days, seeking advice on how to keep their dogs safe, how to ensure they are being responsible owners. On the whole, they're already doing all the right things and are certainly making no greater mistakes than I see routinely trotted out on here by people who think they know what they're talking about.

Some are shocked to discover their dog is likely to be banned, they didn't realise they HAD an 'xl bully killer dog'... they thought they had a mastiff x, a staffy x, a cane corso x, an American Bulldog...

Responsible owners are doing what they can - irresponsible ones are, in combination with our reckless and ridiculous government, putting others at even MORE risk than ever before.

@WiddlinDiddlin Why do people want to own these cross breeds? They don’t even know what they have bought! It’s not acceptable. Please advise owners to buy a dog responsibly. From a registered breeder and a specific breed recognised by the Kennel Club. It’s just not good enough to say these owners don’t know what they have got! Always advise an owner chooses a responsible BREED of dog. Not a cross breed with dubious parentage. Not knowing where your dog comes from regarding parentage is appalling. We should never accept that is good dog ownership.

Far too many posters are just saying those easy 3 words “ban the bully”. It’s a slogan. Not a workable policy. How do you ban them and remove them? No one is answering this! What does banning mean in practice?

Vets have already said that once a dog type is banned other cross breeds are bred with similar characteristics. It’s difficult to ban anything successfully as we have discovered. It’s people who cause these dogs to exist. Choose a better dog!!!

I am really not worried about having packs of out of control bullies roaming the streets really

I am glad to see them banned though. The video footage of poor Ian Price is absolutely horrific. No need to keep something capable of killing a grown man as a pet.

Please advise owners to buy a dog responsibly. From a registered breeder and a specific breed recognised by the Kennel Club.
@TizerorFizz pedigree dogs are often just as inbred or unhealthy as any back yard breeder dog.
There is a documentary called Pedigree Dogs Exposed that you might want to watch.

The best place to get a dog would be a rescue centre if you meet the criteria, and if not then a breeder where you can see the pups with mum and meet the dad. A house where ideally the parents were health tested, and where the pups have been exposed to lots of different things - children, dogs, cats, noises etc from birth (3 weeks - 12 weeks is the most critical period for socialisation), which is not always a pedigree KC registered breeder.

Also, crossbreeds or mongrels can make excellent family pets. I've got a variety of dogs of different breeds and they're all very similar if brought up the same way, with just a few different traits.

The details of the scheme are already clear, and set out in the DDA1991 https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/banned-dogs

The costs are not especially onerous.

Microchipping - already a legal requirement, so should be in place before the puppy is sold, regardless of the ban

Neutering - a routine part of dog ownership that should already have been budgeted for regardless of the ban (if someone said to you "I want a golden retriever but I can't afford spaying" you'd tell them not to get a dog in the first place). Regardless, my local council offers it at £210 for a spay and £120 castration - a one off cost.

Third Party Insurance - £25 per year via Dogs Trust membership. I pay over £600 per year in health insurance for my little middle aged dog despite never having claimed.

Secure fencing - should already be in place regardless of which breed it is.

Muzzle - £10-15

Lead - if they haven't already got that, I don't know what to tell you.

If an owner cannot afford up to £225 in one off costs and £25 per year thereafter, then they cannot afford to feed the dog - and I'd love to know how they can apparently afford £2000 for a puppy but not the cost of a spay 🤔

The people contacting you are mostly the responsible ones. You just aren't hearing from the significant number of irresponsible ones.

If they do dump their dogs after the ban, they'll be committing a criminal offence and that dog will inevitably be put down.

Exactly what @TheCupboardUnderTheStairsAtTheMojoDojoCasaHouse has said, completely agree.

Out of interest, how many of these responsible owners have had their dogs neutered? Because unless there is a behavioural or medical reason, that’s what sensible owners do. Unless of course, they make a nice little wallet of money from breeding them…

I was advocating a decent pedigree dog breeder. Few of these dogs kill @VeterinaryCareAssistant A decent pedigree dog where you see the parents and puppies is unlikely to be dangerous. More troubling is why people want dogs bred to fight.

The licence did very little to improve safety - it was just a tax, like the TV licence, and often ignored.

I'd be in favour of a licensing system that involved theory (pre dog purchase) and practical lessons though.

because we were burgled four times in two years due to what we do for work. Our dogs are trained to bark at our fence lines and since we have had them we have not been targeted. There are far more dangerous things then a well bred and trained dog doing the job it was born to do.

You don't need an XL Bully for that. I've got a Jack Russell X who saw off a burglar once, and has a bark so deep the postman thought he was 3x the size until he saw him.

All you need is a dog that's barky though to make the burglar thing there's easier pickings.

Unless "what we do for work" is actually the drugs trade, the equation might change then.

XL Bullies have been run like a pyramid scheme for a few years now.

The high prices of these XL Bullies seem to be predicated on the idea that if you buy one then you can breed it, sell the puppies for equally high prices, and make a lot of money in the process.

Of course, like all pyramid schemes, the bottom eventually falls out of the market - given the number of puppies well over 8 weeks old that are being advertised on Pets4Homes and Scumtree - I'd say that supply was already outstripping demand even before the ban was introduced.

DFriend is a vet and says it's quite routine for these bullies (of all sizes) to be unneutered, uninsured, and with owners who say they can't pay. She's even had an owner say they couldn't pay for an emergency spay due to pyometra.

Having watch the horrific video of the attack in Brum, you’ve honestly got to question why anyone would want a breed of dog they couldn’t handle. Most breeds of dogs would be shaking in a corner with its tail between its legs if it was being hit with a spade. Not those dogs though, they don’t seem to feel any pain!

My dog was attacked by an XL Bully who was very luckily muzzled. It slipped the lead even though the owner was trying to control it. I have no doubt that without that muzzle, it would have killed my dog. The owner had taken steps to keep the dog under control but it was just too strong for him. I shudder to think what could have happened. I believe that, despite the owner being responsible, that dog will continue to be a danger.

I can think of lots of reasons why people want a crossbreed - I've met people who have always had some sort of bullbreed mix and wouldn't consider anything else no matter how much more suitable, its simply what they've always had. Why people want a dog they can't control... I think they have no idea that they can't control it... until they can't!

Lots of people appear incapable of considering what makes up their crossbreed and how that may affect behaviour (and many assume a puppy is a blank slate so it doesn't matter where they get it from or parent temperament etc!)... the mix of choice makes no real odds there, the glut of Cockerpoo owners are really no different in that regard.

@TheCupboardUnderTheStairsAtTheMojoDojoCasaHouse Where on earth do you live?! No council scheme here and a bitch spay can cost anywhere from £350 to £700 depending on size/weight. Dogs Trust haven't given out free neuter vouchers for years, and most folk won't fall under a PDSA catchment area either. It is a postcode lottery as to whether spay/neuter is subsidised/cheap or not.

@WiddlinDiddlin I agree with you about cockerpoo owners not fully understanding what they're getting.

The difference is that cockerpoos are not killing people (nor are cockers, or poodles).

I live in Cardiff - this is the local authority dogs home
https://www.cardiffdogshome.co.uk/dog-owners/neutering/

There are other schemes elsewhere e.g.
Free neutering if you're on means tested benefits in 5 London boroughs
https://themayhew.org/how-we-help/our-vet-clinic/neutering/
£80/100 neutering in Plymouth
https://www.woodsidesanctuary.org.uk/neutering/

But even if neutering was £1000 - it's a cost that owners should have factored in before getting a dog.

If they cannot afford the cost of routine, predictable healthcare + insurance, they cannot afford a dog.

U just choke a dog out, no need to stab it or hurt it but use a lead or by the collar twist it until the dog is out.

I doubt that the average woman would be strong enough to choke through the solid muscle that is the neck of one of those things. Plus would you really want to get your face that close to its head?!

It's amazing what fear can do for people's strength - especially if it's your own dog being attacked.

The bigger issue is that most people go all "rabbit in the headlights" and do nothing even when it's two chihuahuas scrapping.

I think you're overestimating what you'd accomplish in such an attack, given that they are quite capable of killing a grown man.
I seriously hope you are never in a position to find out though!

I too sincerely hope I'm never in such a position to find out if I had the strength.

I've broken up a few dog scraps in my time though - never anything more than handbags at dawn mind you - no blood drawn.

Usually just hauling one dog out is enough to stop the fight altogether.

It's amazing how many owners just freeze. I once had to stop serving a customer to go and haul one dog off another as neither owner was doing a thing about it.

I do agree, a lot of people are deer in the headlights if something unforseen and horrible happens whereas other people go into fight mode, and you've obviously learned you are one of them. I'd certainly applaud you if you could stop an attack by one of those things but as I've said I do worry for anyone who is in that position, but fair play to you for being brave.

I suggest you take a look at the top videos on the redd1t sub r/BanPitBulls

I have seen dogs on there take three bullets from police while being wrestled by four grown men and they are still not letting go of their victim.

I've broken up a few dog fights but I'd not fancy my chances against an XL bully!

Most weigh more than me, so if I was brave enough, which if it had my dog I'd try to be, I doubt I'd be strong enough 🤦‍♀️

As everyone knows I saw this attack and one of the guys helping was whacking the dog in the head with the metal garden gate and the dog wasn't fazed at all. These dogs when they've flipped are completely too much for even a big adult male to stop so when you see them on a lead being held by a small woman who's having major trouble holding on, it just screams out that these animals should not be able to be owned by just anyone, though if I had my way they'd just all be put down and I could breathe easier knowing I can walk down the street not worrying that some huge powerful monster dog can possibly kill me

@Devilsmommy I saw the video (admittedly I don't think I saw the whole clip) but from what I saw nobody helped. Someone was pushing a wheelie bin back and forth and one man poked one of the other dogs with a bit of wood.

@VeterinaryCareAssistant 3 men were trying to help using the wheelie bins to block the dogs and the gate also but because the dogs had no collars on they had no way of holding them once they got them blocked from the guy on the floor. Obviously they were worried about getting bitten themselves which you can't blame them for. There were so many people watching it happen who also could have stepped in but nobody wants to get attacked themselves so it was a really shit situation and I applaud those 3 men who at least tried.

Yanbu
You would have to be mad or extremely ignorant.