To think having XL bullies around children is child neglect?

[Eaglemom]

To think that parents who have XL Bullies in the house with children should be investigated for child neglect. Its the same as leaving a child with a loaded gun to play with. What the hell is wrong with people that are willing to take this chance with their children’s lives?

Whoops that was for @ItWillWash !

I wanted to ask @HauntingSecrets how to teach bite inhibition.

@ItWillWash sorry but FUCKING HELL

these dogs are 1% of society and 70% cause of deaths of people.

get in the real world. Stop with the bullshit.. these XL bullies are killing people I the most horrific way more than any other dogs.

stop trying to scew the reality. Nobody needs a dog like this. I do not want to live in a society where a fucking massive deadly bully can escape/ jump the lead/ be free anyway and kill my kids .

cut the crap. Other dogs are not doing this like they are and you fucking know it

Right. At the moment we have a problem with XL bullies. If we take steps, we can prevent the next 9 people dying in the next two or three years.

Yes of course the numpties will be trying to breed something else- and when it proves as lethal as this breed we'll have to take steps on that, too.

We can't do nothing, and no measure will be fool proof.

Agree OP. There is a family near me with one of these dogs and they have a baby about 9 months old. I hate when they walk near us in the street near my DC.
I'm also sick of hearing it's not the dog but the human. These dogs were breed to fight. Even the dogs that have been brought up well can still be triggered especially by a small child. I have heard of instances where the dog is asleep dreaming and suddenly snapped.

I have no idea. She can't remember herself why she needed a chihuahua in her life from the age of 3ish but she says she loves them now because they are so "ugly" that they are cute once they age past puppyhood so it's definitely an aesthetic thing rather than the breed suiting her needs.

For bite inhibition, most of it is taught by littermates before the age of 8 weeks but you reinforce this by removing rewards/attention when your new puppy bites or by distracting with a toy.

I usually go for removal of attention but in larger breeds, this is not always easy so distraction with a toy also works. I used a mix of both with my rottie x when he was young. If he nipped too hard in play I would stand up and turn my back on him. If he was just mouthing I would offer him a toy to play with instead.

@Devilsmommy i am so so sorry that you witnessed that and that the poor poor bloke had his life ended by those out of control massive deadly dogs.
I did see the video and although understand why it’s not it’s
not the most dignified thing for the world to see, the reality is the most eerie awful thing you will
ever see and maybe some people with their stupid thick heads in the sand will see the truth of what they can and will do.
RIP Ian and I sincerely hope his horrific death will not be in vain despite what some really dense people think.

All dogs can kill so why are we not banning all dogs then? There was a story only a week or so ago about a French bulldog attacking a young child so why we not banning them?

You cannot just pick a particular breed and demand they are banned yet allow others to walk around free that can do the same damage.

Why are some people not getting this?! Mind you, we are talking about people with the level of intelligence that allows a killer dog around small children.

And these killer dogs have killed grown men too. Yet they still allow them around children.

Should not be surprised then, that they defend these dogs. 😬

Very worried, and upset, and angry even, but not surprised!

Well hopefully the French bulldogs will be next. As for all dogs can kill. Just stop it FFS! You and @ItWillWash are just embarrassing yourselves now.

Yes ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor because a chihuahua or a French Bulldog can do exactly the same damage as an XL bully. You must be a troll because nobody is THAT stupid.

In what way am I embarrassing myself? Because I don’t believe you can pick a particular breed and demand that can be banned without changing the law so idiot backstreet breeders won’t do the same with another breed next year?

Do you honestly think banning XL’s will do anything except get rid of a specific breed? A different breed will take its place and become the next ‘demon dog’. Grow up

@stuggling5939 it makes me die a little inside also when I see babies and kids near these things.
The arguments that it’s the owners not the dogs... It’s infuriating when people debate if it’s the dogs nature or the owners, clearly both are at play... but I don’t care.. whoever is at fault these dogs need to be wiped out because of their aptitude for aggression and also for the fact that the constant fall into the hands of irresponsible owners. All that I care about is that the end result is stopped.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to point to me to the post where I have explicitly defended this type of dog?

My point is, and always has been, that BSL does not work.

I said in my first post that this type has an usually large number of fatalities attributed to them and that this needs further research but going by what we read in the news all of these attacks can be attributed to human negligence. Banning this particular type of dog does nothing to resolve that. The people "dealing" in this type/breed are making tens of thousands a year from it (and they are dealing. The majority of UK breeders of XL bullies are former drug dealers). They are not just going to stop. They will brutalise another set of breeds instead.

I would actually like to see a breeding ban on XL Bullies along with pocket/micro bullies, brachycephalic breeds, and other horrifically deformed breeds e.g. dachshunds on health grounds. I also think muzzling the existing XL bully types in public is a good call but this needs to be done in conjunction with other measures because BSL alone does not and has not ever worked.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor

See @StripeyMow 's post at 22.18

Says all I want to say. Speaks volumes. Speaks truth. About you, and @ItWillWash

Regardless of the dog breed they can kill. You might feel safe with a chihuahua attacking your child instead of an XL but I would rather all dog breeders and owners were licensed properly and made to train and control their animals appropriately.

Do you have any grasp on statistics at all?
I mean surely you do not need this very simple fact spelt out as it has been all over the media and you are free to do your own research as you like it the facts do remain.
Once again... these xl bullies have killed 14 humans in the last couple of years including children. They make up 1% of breeds yet are responsible for 70% of human deaths. Does any of this ring any alarm bells yet? Are you absorbing and calculating these facts at all?
If you have the capability of understanding of what this means then surely you can understanding why this particular breed is more in need of being banned than a random french bulldog who couldn’t kill if it tried.
If you don’t get this can you please try to explain why because this is getting very very scary that these dogs can end up in the hands of people with such little respect of the difference between the damage a French bulldog and an XL bully can do. More evidence they need banning.

Sensible point. You’re right, more must be done to tackle these BYB. Because they will simply replace this one with another status dog. We need stricter rules on all dog ownership.

But muzzling in public isn’t enough. Attacks are happening in people’s homes, or in the most recent case didn’t the dogs jump through a window and attack a neighbour? Unfortunately, these dogs have by and large been bred for nefarious purposes. They have been bred to be big and aggressive. Yes, like many are saying, any dog can snap, but these mutant cross breeds can do a lot more damage than most. Another point. We don’t have the police resources to respond to all crimes, let alone police the management of certain dog breeds. They simply should not be kept in the community.

@StripeyMow Licensing dogs, with higher cost licenses for breeders, would go a long way to funding properly trained dog wardens.

I agree that these dogs can do a lot of damage in a very short space of time compared to some other breeds but the only ones I have witnessed in public have been very well trained and very well behaved, and like I said, all of the attacks in the news can be attributed to the owners, so I would not like to see a cull of these types until further research has been done but muzzling in public plus actually enforcing the existing law (the dogs who killed Ian, for example, had been witnessed to be dangerously out of control in public yet nothing had been done) would be a start and would go a long way to protect people in the interim.

As for them making up 1% of the dogs in the UK, we don't know this. This is a figure based on what vets are reporting. Do you think someone who allows their dogs to jump from a window really takes their dogs to a vet?

Licensing would give us a better idea of what types of dogs are in the and who owns them. Obviously, some people would try to flout the license laws but we could incentivize it, like other countries have done and hand out hefty fines to those who are caught without a license which would go further to funding dog wardens.

@ThisIsNotThePostYourLookingFor But why is it an either/or? Why not ban the most dangerous breeds and also have licensing rules for owners and breeders?

When are you going to grasp that even if they do successfully manage to ban the XL dogs that the idiots that use these large breeds for fighting etc will just pick another? Or they will just continue to use these dogs, it’s not like the police have the availability to chase every single report they get.

There are lots of other large dangerous breeds out there that can do just as much damage. Previously it was German shepherds etc who will it be next? If they aren’t willing to change the law and stop anyone able to breed dogs then they should just ban all dogs.

Oh FFS just STOP !!!

I guess that depends on where you draw the line on ‘dangerous’ breeds. Some people thing Staffordshire terries are dangerous but some don’t etc. I do agree that all breeders and owners should be licensed and made to train, chipped etc. It might put the prices up but it might also stop lots of backstreet breeders or abandoned animals hopefully.

So hard. Just traumatic

And yanbu op

A big part of the problem, imo, is the lack of public funding and the lack of policing.

E.g the two dogs who attacked Ian Price. The police did nothing when they were reported to be out of control in public on at least two separate occasions. The dog who killed Jack Lis had also been witnessed to be out of control in public, although it is not clear if this had been reported at the time. Nothing was done.

My sister's house was smashed up a few weeks ago. Initially, it was just her front window, so she came to me to vent/drink. I walked her home a few glasses of wine later with my large breed dog (she lived in an area notorious for drugs/assaults). When we reached her house all of her windows had been smashed and her house was trashed. I told her to phone 999 and wandered around the immediate area with my dog while she waited for the police. I did this because she didn't want my dog in her house due to her cats not being used to dogs and because he gets restless standing still on his lead.

Because I was walking with a large breed "dangerous" dog it wasn't long before I attracted the attention of the local dealers who assumed me and my dog were out for revenge on either themselves or one of their mates. I was cornered by a group of 6-8 lads. One of them told me he had an XL Bully and was going to go and get it and "set it" on me and my ridiculously friendly dog.

As soon as the police arrived at my sister's I felt safe enough to push my way through the lads. I reported the threats immediately, while the group of lads were still stood shouting threats and obscenities at us. The police did sweet FA. They didn't even speak to the lads. I asked them to follow us to my house a few blocks away to ensure the lads who were threatening us didn't follow us and they refused, stating that my dog could protect us. They didn't even check if the XL bully I was threatened with existed (I doubt it did).

If my dog had attacked anyone I would have been blamed. The police force in this country is a joke. As is the government. While we have these clowns in charge nothing is going to change with dogs, with crime, or with anything else.

The figures for how many of 'these dogs' (difficult in the first place as this covers a wide range of crossbreeds) are around are WAY out.

Stats for how many dogs, what breed etc, come from two main sources:

1/Kennel Club breed registrations - not applicable.
2/Insurance companies - highly unreliable when so so many will not be insured as individuals for vet bills (they may be covered as non-specific animals within a household under other policies).

They're also not new, they've been around a good 20 years, though the numbers have increased massively in the last few years, but then this follows the trend of dog ownership in general.

In the course of my work, I have had cause to report to SS on just one occasion - that is across almost 20 years of going into peoples homes, training classes and latterly, working remotely.

That case was not xl bullies. It was two akitas and a near pedigree type (tiny!) staffy.

Even then, it was the ignorance and risk taking of the owners that caused me to report rather than the breed of dog.

I've worked with xl bullies of all shapes, sizes and genetic origin - some I'd say were no more likely to attack than any other dog/breed, and some an absolute fucking liability and the difference was always the attitude and behaviour of the owner far more than the behaviour of the dog.

All of us who work with dogs responsibly, will contact SS if we're concerned about a situation. Unfortunately, the really scary people will be the least likely to contact a trainer/behaviourist in the first place.

These days that is even truer, as people think they can get all their dog training and handling information from TV shows or TikTok - and for the last three years or so, the 'wealth' of horrific abusive training methods displayed on Tiktok and similar has sky-rocketed.

It just isn't as simple as banning this, automatically assuming that, if life were that simple we'd all be living in Utopia... there'd be world peace, no poverty, no drug problems etc etc. It is complicated, because humans make it so!