To think having XL bullies around children is child neglect?

[Eaglemom]

To think that parents who have XL Bullies in the house with children should be investigated for child neglect. Its the same as leaving a child with a loaded gun to play with. What the hell is wrong with people that are willing to take this chance with their children’s lives?

I’ve been through the stats on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

There have been 70 fatal incidents in Britain since 1980 involving dogs. 3 of these incidents saw people die from sepsis following a dog bite (these incidents involved a spaniel, a pit bull terrier and an XL Bully and Cane Corso).

Some incidents involved more than 1 dog type and some were cross breeds, for the cross breeds I’ve gone with the first named breed.

The dogs with the highest number of fatal attacks are:

American Bulldog - 12
Pit bull Terrier - 11
Staffordshire bull terrier - 11
Bully XL - 9
Rottweiler - 7
Mastiff - 4

The following breeds had 3 fatal attacks - Alsatian, Jack Russell and German Sheppard

The following had 1 fatal attack - Malamute, Lakeland Terrier, British Bulldog, Husky and Cane Corso

All of the incidents involving XL Bully’s have occurred since November 2021, so 9 attacks in the space of less than 2 years.

So a pp on this thread has said a Jack Russell has killed before….. is this just not true or maybe in another country? Personally I’m all for a ban on these dogs, they’re just far too muscular, even if not aggressive. Any dog can turn but even if they don’t I have experience of a relative being knocked over by an over-exuberant one and suffered quite bad injuries from it.

Apologies I’ve just seen Jack Russell is in that post I quoted. Still would rather fancy my chances with a JRT over an XL Bully

yabu snd hysterical but Mumsnet will agree with you.

A Jack Russell killed a baby while it was left unattended with the baby. It was in the UK. I remember it distinctly because I had a baby and a JRT at the time, although I never left them alone together.

I grew up around dogs, as did my children, and as DD19 currently has 2 very young chihuahuas who can live for up to 20 years I imagine her kids will be the same.

For me, it's a case of weighing up the benefits and risks. I can't imagine life without a dog. I suffer from depression and the dog gets me out daily. There's also the companionship, stress relief, and opportunity to teach kids responsibility and how to care for other living beings.

I didn't have a large breed when my kids were young. After my JRT passed we had a JRT/Westie cross and a small lurcher/Italian greyhound cross. We currently have a rottweiller cross but I didn't pick any of those dogs. The terrier cross was from the rescue I volunteered with at the time as a behaviourist/trainer and the lurcher was left on my doorstep.

We got the rottweiler cross when I posted on a local rescue page listing what we were looking for in a dog and he was the closest fit. I'd have anything from a chihuahua to an Irish wolfhound as long as it fit my requirements.

I have nothing against large breeds and frequently took in lurchers and greyhounds who needed teaching how to live in a home after a life in kennels and thought nothing of letting my children visit their grandparents who had an Akita and a Lab when they were young and later adopted a bull lurcher from my rescue.

All of these attacks have one thing in common and it's not the breed it's an irresponsible owner.

DD picked a chihuahua. I have no idea why she chose that breed as her favourite breed. She has coveted chihuahuas since she was old enough to talk and a chihuahua was top of her Christmas list from as soon as she could write to when I finally relented and bought her one for her 18th birthday.

While I don't know why she picked that breed I do know why I eventually allowed it and that was because it suited her lifestyle and her needs at the time. She has very bad social anxiety and would use my little lurcher as an emotional support dog, taking her to bed with her when she was feeling suicidal. She often told me that dog saved her life. Had she ever been alone in the house when the suicidal urges hit and the dog hadn't been there she would have acted on it.

When the lurcher passed away DD was gutted. I knew she needed another companion breed and I knew my working breed(s) Rottie/Beagle cross wouldn't fit the bill but a chihuahua, among many other breeds, would have. There were no Chis or other suitable companion breeds available in local rescues but I kept looking.

DD had been on a waiting list for a reputable chi breeder for years so when the breeder contacted us to let us know a buyer dropped out and DD was first reserve I bought her it for her birthday.

My MIL was attacked by their family dog randomly one night after having the dog for 7 years without any previous incidents or signs. The breed of the dog? A bloody jack russell. It was immediately put down and she will have facial scarring for the rest of her life.

Any dog can turn so having a child with any dog is child neglect technically. The idiots that breed the XL’s for ‘demon dogs’ will just find another breed to abuse. They did it with the German Shepard’s and the dobermans.

Do we just ban all dogs or do we ban back street breeders and try and fix things that way?

The scary thing is the child doesn't even need to be left alone with the dog.

Even if you are in the same room and it decides to attack - there is nothing you can do to stop it.

We have an old lhasa apso who has never nipped anyone. I don't allow my grandson 4 to be unsupervised with her not because I don't trust the dog more I don't trust the grandson. Children are impulsive and can't be expected to know how to be safe around dogs whatever their size IMO.

Exactly what @Chesneyhawkes1 said 👏

There is very little chance of a dog who exercised, socialised, and stimulated appropriately attacking anyone, no matter what the breed is.

The problem is people are getting these large, working breeds and not exercising them anywhere near enough or giving them any mental stimulation at all. When I was working as a trainer I always told clients if you do not give your working breed a job he or she will find their own and it will almost always be a job you don't want them to have (usually perimeter guarding or "protecting" you from the postman/local cats/a leaf caught on a breeze by barking incessantly).

Working breeds, including traditional bullbaiting breeds and terriers, need to be worked for their sanity. You can walk them for 8 hours a day but unless they have a "job" they still won't be worn out.

@Anothernamechange3 all 3 Jack Russell attacks were on babies under 4 months old. In one of the incidents there was also a Staffie involved.

My point in posting the info I did was to demonstrate that there is obviously an issue with certain breeds. Of course the owner plays huge part but you (generic “you”) cannot dismiss breed type and disposition. As has been pointed out several times on these threads, people are happy to acknowledge that breeds can have an instinct to chase/retrieve/herd/etc so why is it so hard to believe that some breeds tend towards aggression?

You could say the same about any breed of dog realistically even small dogs are a risk we had a small dog pts in the 70s as it wouldn't let anyone near the baby and bit the person who did

Any dog could turn, yes. An aggressive spaniel could snap at a child and bite them on the neck, injuring them. If you were incredibly unlucky, the teeth could catch the child at the worst angle, reaching a major artery and causing a bleed/possible death if you can't get to a hospital in time. But that would be incredibly unlikely.

If an XL bully snaps at your child and catches them on the neck, they will hold on. They will lock their jaw and hold and increase the force whilst their sunken in teeth rip through arteries and flesh causing more and more damage until it's game over. Your kid is dead.

The numerous videos of XL bully attacks where they've latched onto a person's arm or leg leave me cold. The only reason these people are still alive is because they had the blind luck that a limb was closer to the dog than their head or neck. Because if it had been their head or neck, they'd be dead.

Pit bulls and their crosses don't bite, they latch on, exert force and cause horrendous damage. Comparing a 'normal' dog bite to an XL bully bite is like comparing cutting your arm with a knife to sticking your arm in a blender.

As has been pointed out several times on these threads, people are happy to acknowledge that breeds can have an instinct to chase/retrieve/herd/etc so why is it so hard to believe that some breeds tend towards aggression?

All of the "instincts" you posted are inherent to Canidea as a whole. Aggression to their own species and to humans is not which is why it is treated differently in behaviour science than other breed traits.

@Devilsmommy I've seen the short video of the attack you had to witness first hand and it's horrific.

I'm so sorry you had to see it in real life and for Ian.

Some people are in denial about what these dogs are capable of. Maybe they need to see it and wise up.

Why only XL bullies ?
because they’ve been all over the media that’s why.
rotties , Dobermans, staffs they’ve all been singled out before.
I wouldn’t leave any dog alone with a young child and I have a sausage dog.
The problem is the owners. Too many rude boy wannabes using big dogs as penis extensions.

Agree @FawltyTower I cannot believe some people are still coming out with this 'oooh but a poodle can bite too, and so can a chihuahua!'

A badly behaved tiny dog - or even a border collie, red setter, or labrador, won't do anywhere NEAR as much damage as a badly trained fucking XL BULLY! Why do people keep coming out with this utter horseshit?

I unfortunately have seen the video footage of the most recent attack that killed an innocent man. I would never usually suggest anybody seeing anything like this but it has haunted me ever since and I’m telling you now it’s fucking horrific. I feel sick to my stomach and I will take that image to my grave.
You can honestly say that children being attacked to death in caravans or in their friends house to death for petting their dog , a woman just walking dogs, a man caring about his mother... all dying by being slowly ripped apart to death ... the reaction is hysterical?
I do not want to live in a society where this is even an option.
I wonder what your reaction would be if a video was out there of someone you cared for being slowly ripped to death in the most painful atrocious way .
and there is absolutely no need for it ... nobody Needs a dog like this nobody does. Wake up. Stop being so fucking thick

There is very little chance of a dog who exercised, socialised, and stimulated appropriately attacking anyone, no matter what the breed is.
I hugely disagree with this. If a dog is threatened or frightened by something new, which of course can happen in life, of course they can attack someone. Or dogs can randomly take dislikes to people or other animals.

A dog who is properly socialised and accustomed to a wide range of people, other animals, noises, and environmental factors will not randomly take a dislike to someone for no reason nor is it likely to become fearful to the point where its fight or flight instinct kicks in.

If you have a dog who does this it is not yet fully socialised and you need to contact an APBC registered behaviourist.

@Grapewrath people like you are exactly why the dogs need to be banned. Because of their aggressive nature and because of fucking owners like you. Hysteria? Over just a few kids and adults being ripped to death... fucking hell ...

@AlexaCanYouHearMe It's just baffling, isn't it, the inability of these people to follow a logical train of thought. Yes, there is some risk of injury with any dog. The younger the child, the more vulnerable they are. But the risk is much higher with a dog that a grown adult can't fight off. Is that so hard for people to grasp?

We ban dogs that can and do kill
peolple. Of course. Why wouldn’t we? This seems to not make sense
to so many people . I honestly am losing the will. Lions and tigers in this country are kept behind aches because if they weren’t they would kill people. These massive muscular steel jawed dogs are living with children and killing people in the street. They have to go.

We ban dogs that can and do kill

That's pretty much all dogs with the exception of lone Chihuahuas, teacup yorkies, and Italian greyhounds.

All dogs can kill and all dogs would become aggressive if they were aggressively inbred by numpties and then owned by numpties who don't socialise, exercise, or stimulate them.

I don't believe for a second that these numpties want their pets to maul innocent people, so maybe, if we educated them from a young age, that would make a difference. Education from primary age and above has made a difference in other countries so unless we have a special breed of stupid in the UK it can make a difference here, unlike BSL which has done nothing to reduce attacks.

@HauntingSecrets did your DD read a book called 'a dog so small', by Phillipa Poerce? It was a popular Childrens book which refers to chihuahuas!