Page 4 | To think there is a sub-class of people in our society

bluewanda · 2023-09-21T20:27:31+00:00

Baby boy died in 'filthy' home with 'traces of cocaine in his system' [[https://mol.im/a/12545263 https://mol.im/a/12545263]] What the hell is wrong with these people. How the fuck can they subject an innocent baby to such a horrific life?! These children should be removed at birth because they don’t stand a chance. It is so utterly depressing.

Original poster

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:27

Pollyputhekettleon · 21/09/2023 22:22

Yes, that protects the children from birth, which is great. But most of them were already brain damaged or even addicted in utero from the alcohol, smoking, drugs, not eating properly, not attending prenatal care etc. They're in trouble before they're even born.

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That is just beyond sad. Your life trajectory looking pretty damn screwed before you’re even born.

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SkinnyMalinkyLankyLegs · 21/09/2023 22:27

Fallingthroughclouds · 21/09/2023 21:59

So the sub class are people on benefits? Please don't lump people together like this. There are plenty of people who need to claim benefits who don't neglect their children and there are many people who are high earners who abuse. Your comments are really prejudiced.

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I think there is a difference though between people who need to claim beneifts and people who want and choose to live off benefits.

Namechangedtoanswerthisone · 21/09/2023 22:28

Social worker is really underfunded and there are not enough social workers to check on all the children on the at risk list. The system is broken. Social care is broken. The NHS is broken.

However, some people keep voting in the monsters that don't think spending money on this is vital. Society failed this child not just the parents.

ConsuelaHammock · 21/09/2023 22:28

Somanycats · 21/09/2023 22:16

There absolutely is a subclass of people in society. They are not a disgrace!! They are learning disabled/ child abuse victims/ foetal alcohol syndrome/ physically disabled/ low IQ/ care system survivors/ mentally ill/ veteran PTSD survivors.... We neglect them. We know full well that they can't cope with life in general and parenthood in particular but we don't want to pay more taxes so we leave them to their own devices and this is what happens. We could improve the outcomes for the children of these failing families but most of us don't want to. It costs £200,000 per year to keep a child in care. Unsurprisingly that's an unpopular use of public money.

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Which is why those children shouldn’t be born in the first place. It’s just not fair to those children to be born into a life of poverty and misery. Repeat offenders should be offered sterilisation. I don’t like the idea of taking someone’s reproduction rights away but the needs of potential children should come before the needs of an addict, especially repeat offender
When the children are removed they need to be fostered or adopted. They often need special school places. They are innocent victims of selfish parenting.

Pollyputhekettleon · 21/09/2023 22:30

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:27

That is just beyond sad. Your life trajectory looking pretty damn screwed before you’re even born.

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It is. There's nothing that can be done to repair that damage either, completely unfixable. It's sad for the rest of society as well of course, because we have to live with the consequences of that.

Charlingspont · 21/09/2023 22:31

Part of my job is dealing with child protection records. You'd be surprised at how many reports say "mother refused to engage, therefore case closed". Surely if mother refuses to engage, that's a red flag? As is refusing entry to the home.

Original poster

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:31

ConsuelaHammock · 21/09/2023 22:28

Which is why those children shouldn’t be born in the first place. It’s just not fair to those children to be born into a life of poverty and misery. Repeat offenders should be offered sterilisation. I don’t like the idea of taking someone’s reproduction rights away but the needs of potential children should come before the needs of an addict, especially repeat offender
When the children are removed they need to be fostered or adopted. They often need special school places. They are innocent victims of selfish parenting.

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The children’s rights always seem to come last in these situations. That’s what’s so fucking depressing. It’s about time we put these (in some cases unborn) children’s rights ahead of their degenerate parents.

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ConsuelaHammock · 21/09/2023 22:32

Namechangedtoanswerthisone · 21/09/2023 22:28

Social worker is really underfunded and there are not enough social workers to check on all the children on the at risk list. The system is broken. Social care is broken. The NHS is broken.

However, some people keep voting in the monsters that don't think spending money on this is vital. Society failed this child not just the parents.

This child was failed by their parents. Society can’t be responsible for everything. It just can’t. It’s always the parents fault when a baby is killed. Even an animal can look after their young!

AnnaBlush · 21/09/2023 22:32

@bluewanda
Presumably the mother made enough progress her previous child was removed off register. Looks like a pre birth was considered, midwives probably were aware - but no legally without new concerns/ evidence the local authority cannot force home visits
I noticed that more often now mothers are asked to bring babies in to the office to see community midwives/ health visitors - opposed to home visits. That could be contributing factor. Or again mum could have refused input - so it’s the law that is responsible

Goodornot · 21/09/2023 22:32

Mental illness, drug addiction, lack of support, inadequate social services who ought to have removed the child?

So very tragic and I don't think name calling will help.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 21/09/2023 22:33

The problem is we don't have our "village" anymore, to set an example to the underclass types. Those people are just surrounded by others like them, and so it becomes their norm. When I was young in the late 70s (normal working-class area) there were parents around during the day in our street. Usually mums, some worked a few hours a day. These were "good" families, worked hard, kept their house tidy (as it would be frowned on by the neighbours if they let it go to shit), kids generally well-behaved and polite. Law-abiding. Looked out for each other. They may not have had much money but they had a sense of pride and knew how to behave properly and had a respsect for authority. Kids learn these attitudes. If someone was a shit parent then at least their kid had plenty of exposure to other adults who were good parents, and a role model, and if they were lucky those other adults would look out for them and keep them in line and provide a bit of a sanctuary.

Fast forward 40 years and the hard working responsible young families who want a decent standard of living have to have both parents out at work all day. The "village" isn't there anymore. Only those families who have zero interest in working (can, but won't) are the only ones at home in many estates. There is no-one for the children to learn from, and to see that there's another way. If those children are lucky they will have good teachers in school who could be their role models. If they're unlucky their deadbeat parents won't bother making sure they attend school regularly.

Original poster

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:33

Pollyputhekettleon · 21/09/2023 22:30

It is. There's nothing that can be done to repair that damage either, completely unfixable. It's sad for the rest of society as well of course, because we have to live with the consequences of that.

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Could government-funded programmes not make a difference - education, therapy, counseling etc?

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archimedesconstant · 21/09/2023 22:33

Well, yes some people are just pure evil and never deserved to have children. Too many heartbreaking cases in the news recently to mention, defies belief.

But regarding a general ‘subclass’ of people that posters are on about (benefits, multiple children with no responsibility, borderline feral) how many of us can say we wouldn’t have ended up the same if we had happened to be born and raised in that environment?

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 21/09/2023 22:33

From some posters ive picked up, basically 'it's everyone else's responsibility to stop bad things happening, and if they do, don't blame the people that did it?

Original poster

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:35

AnnaBlush · 21/09/2023 22:32

@bluewanda
Presumably the mother made enough progress her previous child was removed off register. Looks like a pre birth was considered, midwives probably were aware - but no legally without new concerns/ evidence the local authority cannot force home visits
I noticed that more often now mothers are asked to bring babies in to the office to see community midwives/ health visitors - opposed to home visits. That could be contributing factor. Or again mum could have refused input - so it’s the law that is responsible

I don’t believe it’s the law that is responsible - yes there is a lot more the government could do, but at the end of the day the buck stops with the parents.

Is the law responsible for all people who do horrific things? Absolutely not.

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Original poster

bluewanda · 21/09/2023 22:36

CurlyhairedAssassin · 21/09/2023 22:33

The problem is we don't have our "village" anymore, to set an example to the underclass types. Those people are just surrounded by others like them, and so it becomes their norm. When I was young in the late 70s (normal working-class area) there were parents around during the day in our street. Usually mums, some worked a few hours a day. These were "good" families, worked hard, kept their house tidy (as it would be frowned on by the neighbours if they let it go to shit), kids generally well-behaved and polite. Law-abiding. Looked out for each other. They may not have had much money but they had a sense of pride and knew how to behave properly and had a respsect for authority. Kids learn these attitudes. If someone was a shit parent then at least their kid had plenty of exposure to other adults who were good parents, and a role model, and if they were lucky those other adults would look out for them and keep them in line and provide a bit of a sanctuary.

Fast forward 40 years and the hard working responsible young families who want a decent standard of living have to have both parents out at work all day. The "village" isn't there anymore. Only those families who have zero interest in working (can, but won't) are the only ones at home in many estates. There is no-one for the children to learn from, and to see that there's another way. If those children are lucky they will have good teachers in school who could be their role models. If they're unlucky their deadbeat parents won't bother making sure they attend school regularly.

Good post.

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Thereluctantgrownup · 21/09/2023 22:36

Bemyclementine · 21/09/2023 21:32

Once again, lack of communication and action by the professionals that should have been protecting this poor baby. I suppose "lessons will be learnt". Again.

This frustrates me endlessly. Parents should be protecting their children. Parents should be providing a life free from harm and abuse for their children. People such as you have absolutely no idea how health and social care operates but continue to fuel this ridiculous narrative and culture of blaming the wrong people 🙄

TooOldForThisNonsense · 21/09/2023 22:37

ConsuelaHammock · 21/09/2023 22:28

Which is why those children shouldn’t be born in the first place. It’s just not fair to those children to be born into a life of poverty and misery. Repeat offenders should be offered sterilisation. I don’t like the idea of taking someone’s reproduction rights away but the needs of potential children should come before the needs of an addict, especially repeat offender
When the children are removed they need to be fostered or adopted. They often need special school places. They are innocent victims of selfish parenting.

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This

missingyears · 21/09/2023 22:37

It's so sad. But no one really cares. Every day people have no idea about what is really going on. There are thousands of babies and children living in these circumstances and worse. We only hear about the tip of the iceberg when a baby or child dies.

AnnaBlush · 21/09/2023 22:37

@ConsuelaHammock I sadly agree - often we look for someone to blame ( aside from the parents)
Maybe on this case, opportunities were missed to save the baby- but ultimately some parents can conceal, clean houses, hide the truth, lie
I think we just don’t want to face the reality we cannot protect every child

PurpleWisteria1 · 21/09/2023 22:38

icallitasplodge · 21/09/2023 21:48

I think class is the wrong word. The lady in the manhunt whose baby died in a tent due to her and her partners negligence, was of the upper class.

it’s not class that does this.

That’s not what the OP was meaning.
Its very unusual for someone of ‘upper class’ to go on the run with their baby. That was an exceptional case.
Sadly the underclass follow all too common trends amongst their group. Neglect, filth, not working, drugs, sex work and abuse being very common.

femfemlicious · 21/09/2023 22:38

His bed was a baby bouncer😭. Short miserable life fir the poor baby

MyHornCanPierceTheSky · 21/09/2023 22:38

Goodornot · 21/09/2023 22:32

Mental illness, drug addiction, lack of support, inadequate social services who ought to have removed the child?

So very tragic and I don't think name calling will help.

So again, ^everyone else' s fault the parents killed their child, but am assuming if people had prior to this suggested they were inappropriate parents, you'd be shrieking about how nasty and judgemental this was?

ConsuelaHammock · 21/09/2023 22:39

CurlyhairedAssassin · 21/09/2023 22:33

The problem is we don't have our "village" anymore, to set an example to the underclass types. Those people are just surrounded by others like them, and so it becomes their norm. When I was young in the late 70s (normal working-class area) there were parents around during the day in our street. Usually mums, some worked a few hours a day. These were "good" families, worked hard, kept their house tidy (as it would be frowned on by the neighbours if they let it go to shit), kids generally well-behaved and polite. Law-abiding. Looked out for each other. They may not have had much money but they had a sense of pride and knew how to behave properly and had a respsect for authority. Kids learn these attitudes. If someone was a shit parent then at least their kid had plenty of exposure to other adults who were good parents, and a role model, and if they were lucky those other adults would look out for them and keep them in line and provide a bit of a sanctuary.

Fast forward 40 years and the hard working responsible young families who want a decent standard of living have to have both parents out at work all day. The "village" isn't there anymore. Only those families who have zero interest in working (can, but won't) are the only ones at home in many estates. There is no-one for the children to learn from, and to see that there's another way. If those children are lucky they will have good teachers in school who could be their role models. If they're unlucky their deadbeat parents won't bother making sure they attend school regularly.

It’s all just so so sad . Great kids being let down so badly by those who are supposed to love them the most. I don’t know how you fix it! Money isn’t the answer. It runs much deeper than just money!

AnnaBlush · 21/09/2023 22:41

@CurlyhairedAssassin I agree with your views on lack of village. Years ago if a child was not looked after - family stepped in
Its seems now doors are closed and less people know