Ex accused of rape. DD wants to move in with him

[Overreactingmom]

I don’t even know where to begin everything is such a mess.

I have a child (DD12) with Ex. Recently discovered he has 2 separate rape allegations pending (different women, both 18+). He has court early Jan. He also has a record for assaulting me.

ex has a new gf with 2 young girls. SS said he couldn’t live with them anymore as he was an ‘indirect risk’ and they were worried about his drinking/driving/behaviour.

I only found any of this out because ex told me about 1 allegation, the rest came from speaking to SS and the courts.

So they advised (only advised so not set rules) no overnights, for him not to drive her anywhere himself but otherwise keep contact as long as I don’t see any red flags and she can call me if needed.

so for the first time in years he’s been more consistent seeing my DD and has seen her 5 weeks in a row. She is now asking for sleepovers, to live there every other week FT and staying she wants to live there when she is 16. he also wants to take her abroad in Dec which he has never done before even for a weekend.

I am actually heartbroken that she wants to live there as I’ve raised her without much input from him at all. (Never done a school run, night waking, drs appt, etc). It feels like a betrayal from my child (IABU there I know). DD knows he’s been accused of ‘assault’ but assumed fighting in a pub etc so she doesn’t know the real reason. I’m

he speaks to me like shit, comments on my appearance, speaks badly about me in-front of DD and comments on my weight.

I don’t know what to do. How to go forward. I don’t even know if he’s going to be around after court happens. I am going to court to hear details as I need to know if he is guilty or not.

Please be kind. I am so upset and torn right now.

This. I would tell dd that although it’s only advisory at the moment that she could end up losing both of you if you allowed this.

Nothing seems fair when you are 12 and of course it’s mums fault!

I don’t know if I would tell her that he’s been accused of two counts of rape but I would make sure that she knows that it’s very serious allegations regarding his behaviour towards females.

He's doing this so he can raise it in mitigation at his trial - don't send my client down at all/for too long, look at what an amazing and involved dad he is and his poor daughter will suffer if you deprive her of her dad by sending him to prison for raping women...

His girlfriend cannot be deemed responsible - she’s knowingly having her children around him.

The social services investigation for her children will read something along the lines of ‘he is of a medium/high risk to the children in a domestic setting’

this means that in effect, around your child on his own he may well be fine. But in the context of a relationship, he is volatile. And that means that those children are more likely to witness something as a result or get caught in the crossfire.

So ask yourself, why is your child in the exact same situation, any different to hers?

Social services are well known for sitting on the fence. If you take her into protective custody, withhold contact from her dad unless in a supervised contact centre, you will at least have removed that element of harm.

Social services don’t have the law on their side to do that as she is not being abused directly and they’re saying that they aren’t living together - and believe it or not that’s the only version of the truth they need to make that assessment.

You have to do it, and in court to some extent if you withhold contact completely you will be vilified. But allowing her to go to him, says to a court ‘I think it’s safe for them to all be around each other’ which puts you in a state of culpability if something happens.

I went through this process. It’s shit, I won’t lie. But it stopped the unwanted behaviour. The abuser moved onto someone else who they left for dead in front of a child.

Abusers rarely change after the age of 30. Protect your daughter. Get legal advice. File an urgent order to remove his parental responsibility.

of course he’s guilty

I agrée with everyone saying he wants to be seen to be playing the dutiful dad to help his court case. Or access her or her friends. Update SS with everything and ask for help and contact woman’s aid.

He’s abusing you in front of your daughter. He’s teaching her that you are just accepting this and taking it and she’s looking to you to see that if a man or her dad treats you like this then she is to accept that. Please don’t let her programme her mind to accept being abused as normal for being a woman. Protect her now.

At 12 she probably know what sex and rape are. She's reaching an age in which she wants more independence and freedom of choice and legally it won't be long until she's able to do so. If you cut contact with your ex and forcibly prevent your DD from having any contact with him without explaining the situation it could backfire very badly for you both. I'd talk to her and explain to her everything you know about his case and that he is potentially dangerous to her. Tell her you're worried about her safety and to report if he's being inappropriate in any way, tell her which are the red flags of grooming.

You are betrayed not by your daughter but by him. If he says horrible things in front of you can you imagine what he may say behind your back. It will be all, mum's bad, dad's good.

Do anything you can to reduce contact. Explain to your daughter the facts, the charges.

I hope she doesn't live with him but if she does she will see what a twat he is.

I'm so sorry, this is not your fault though:(

Sorry haven’t meant to drip feed but he is no longer allowed in my house (my rule because of him talking badly to me in the past not SS rule) or to drive her here so he is not actively abusing me in front of her anymore. The contact is through the girlfriend so I don’t speak to him directly at all at this point.

She is getting consistent attention from her father for the first time in a long time. It’s natural that she would want to build on that and crave even more.

it’s nothing about you. It’s also not particularly good for her given he doesn’t have a consistent track record and the current crime situation.

I understand why you don’t want to tell her. Even if he isn’t convicted though, I don’t think this is the kind of thing you can hide from your child. 12 is young and a delicate age, but it is also old enough to understand the situation.

You also need to think about how she is going to feel at 16, 20, or 30, when she eventually learns the truth. How is she going to feel about how this situation was handled? Is she going to be ok knowing that she was sent to his home without any warning, despite the charges against him.

Imagine yourself with your current life experience finding out an episode like this had happened in your childhood. How would you feel about how your parents handled it?

I am currently binge watching happy Valley

Your ex is Tommy Lee Royce and your daughter is Ryan

Protect her

Really well done on finding a way forward with this to protect both you and DD.

I totally agree that he's using your DD to look good in court. Your plan to contact SS again is a good one - they can take on board the new behaviours, act on his refusal to move from the GF's home and perhaps even speak to your DD if that would help her to understand/believe the situation. Also worth mentioning that you have taken steps to stop his constant verbal abuse in front of your DD.

Wishing you both lots of luck.

I am so sorry for your situation, this must be awful to try and figure out and deal with. I hope you have some supportive friends and family. I would not allow overnights and even though she is just 12, I think as someone else said you need to say that he has something serious going on that involves hurting women and you have a duty to protect her and listen to SS. Limit their contact as much as you legally can. I am not sure I would have faith his new gf is the right person to monitor his visits, who on earth would stay with someone with 2 sex assault charges who has girls of her own? is there some other arrangement thats possible if you have to allow him visits? Just be very careful and don't allow anything you don't have to.

The pain of letting her go, and being wrong, compared to the problems from saying no. I'm not sure there is any contest. I understand it's a dilemma at this stage, I don't mean to suggest otherwise.

Even if he doesn't do anything, could he be trying to use her in a different way, to present himself as a good character at his trial? If he is, a sudden loss of interest in her afterwards won't be pleasant either

I 100% agree with this. He sounds cruel, manipulative and a nasty piece of work so his sudden love bombing is all to do with his saving his own tail and making him look like a perfect parent when it comes to court.

While the SS's decision was 'advisory', I would be adhering very closely to their advice and simply would keep contact to the barest minimum.

Well her requests are easily answered @Overreactingmom as you can truthfully say she can't stay over there due to SS' suggestions.

My father killed someone when i was young and i found out about it at 19 i think. I had no idea before that and it really messed me up (still does). It messed me up bc i had no idea so it was like being hit by a freight train when i heard. But i think 12 is too young to be told about rape (in the context of her father) personally. I think saying that Dad attacked some women would suffice as an explanation at that age. OP can fill in the details as her daughter gets older imo.

The ops dd is 12, not 16.
She needs safeguarding. She hasn’t got the maturity to deal with this, the ex is using the dd to present himself as a caring dad, strange that he hadn’t bothered with her for years yet now there’s a court case in the offing he’s now giving out Dad of the year vibes.

So sorry to hear about your own experience !

'12 is too young to be told about rape'
This is probably true... but sometimes you have to go with the lesser of two evils.

She will have learned about 'stranger danger' type things and being able to say 'no' to unwanted touching. The conversation could be built on that.

It seems important that she doesn't think of his actions being something with rights/wrongs on both sides.

The 'bar fight' assault in her imagination is easily excused by a loving daughter and of course does not suggest any danger to her herself.

Rape is different in ways that we would all want to shelter her from - but here she needs information in order to stay safe.

I don't mean to only teach stranger danger, i mean the 12 y/o doesn't need the mental image of her father raping her mother. I think it's enough to say 'attacked'. Too much detail for a young child is a very heavy burden for them to carry. And it might surface years later. I honestly don't think the 12 y/o needs to know the gory details right now.

So, in this case, lies do become us! For now at least imo.

He’s an abuser, so tell your dd that he hurts women and that’s why she can’t stay over night
he’s her favourite person now
but all it takes is for her to piss him off and the real him will come out, I wouldn’t risk it
social services will be on your side because of his record

I'm going to guess you know you need to say no to your child staying with a man who has been accused of raping not 1 but 2 woman. No brainer isn't it. Just tell her why. Also report to SS that those 2 kids are living with him.

thinking over your situation again @Overreactingmom and I absolutely agree with pp’s he is using you and your dd to be able to say in court how good a dad he is.
Also he is using you because essentially he could also argue ‘well I’m not considered dangerous as my Ex trusts me with our daughter’ again not true. And this is him exerting power over you again and manipulating the situation.

I also think that at 12 your DD is old enough to understand about consent and how women deserve to be treated and what an abusive relationship looks like.. she will be looking at what you are modelling and that will be her baseline for normal and acceptable. I initially thought she’s too young to know about rape but actually she’s entering a crucial time in her life when she needs to know how to stay safe and what is acceptable behaviour between men and women. I would actually start teaching her now by drawing a firm line and being honest with her about what the reality is still for women in 2023. Could you look at history and see how womens’ roles and status has changed over time and give her a broad perspective in terms of how feminism has developed and what equality looks like today. Xoxox

Do you have a good friend or family member OP who could temporarily hold your DD passport? This would prevent him trying to use your DD to find it.

I would definitely mention it to the safeguarding lead or whoever else is appropriate at DD school. It would be an extra safety measure for DD.

I have been there before as an adult looking in on a child who was being used as pawn by her parents as their relationship crumbled. Different circumstances but the result could be the same and whilst I know using DD as a pawn is not what you are doing it is what her father is doing. The result was an angry and confused child who acted out with us because they felt safe. Even if you do not tell your DD about the rape allegations you still need to tell her that two women say dad hurt them because she needs to have some understanding of why you are saying no otherwise her father will try the bad mother good father act. As others have said I would also contact social services again and let them know about gf and her children and speak to a solicitor to see if you can get concrete rather than advisory over access.