In love with friend’s DH

[kerrypacker]

Not really an AIBU (as I am BU, obviously - but not intentionally so!) Just wondering whether anyone else has experienced this, and if so how on earth did you handle it?! Good friend (from uni, now live in different cities but see each other every so often) has gradually got more serious with their now recently-married DH, which means I have over time got to know friend’s DH (FDH) better. To my horror as I get to know him better I’ve started to feel like this is someone I could really deeply fall for - everything I’ve ever looked for. Not something I would ever act on, and friend and FDH are very happy so it would make no difference if I did.

I’m trying to keep this brief, but it’s horribly upsetting. It’s not a situation I’ve looked for at all, and I’m not someone who typically falls for or goes after people in relationships. I’m also not talking about shallow feelings - they are powerful and I’m really struggling to get over this man.

There isn’t any solution really, but if anyone has experienced the same, that would (weirdly) be some comfort… not that I would wish this on anybody.

@User1789 I said all relationships have a healthy dose of fantasy in them, and many on here have a huge dollop of complete delusion (e.g. people who tell us their husbands are nice and good with the kids and then detail all their neglectful, controlling and aggressive ways). People are both invested in the idea of the person (often the one they first met) and struggle with reality. But I am not arguing that's deep love, I'm arguing that often relationships have in them an element of delusion and or idealisation, and that's not a bad thing. What is bad is what the OP is doing which is taking that idealisation as if it is love of a deeper kind, which of course it is not.

Do I think you can be unrequitedly in love with someone? Yes, if you see them lots and know them well, there's no reason to dismiss those feelings as nothing or the same as fancying some popstar. Is it the same as the deep emotional love of many years of being together, clearly not, it's a stop-gap and not a helpful one at that.

As for whether limerance is a 'real thing', none of these terms like 'crush' 'unrequited love' 'soulmate' or whatever are actual diagnostic categories, they are just social terms for things we commonly talk about. If you don't find the term limerance helpful, avoid it and use 'crush' or 'unrequited love'. There's no one right way to talk about these things but it is a common experience and can last years and be disconcerting, and its helpful to get it all out and see that you are just like others and not be driven by it.

I had a friend who developed a crush on my DP. She came onto him twice, he told me. We stopped speaking. It was really painful as she was an close friend. I wouldn't have been bothered about her fancying him, if she hadn't acted on it! I still feel really sad about it, especially because she died before we were reconciled and I wanted that reconciliation.
You need to only see your friend alone OP.

Yes I do believe in unrequited love. I think a useful term the youth of today use is 'catching feelings'. It sounds like the OP realises she has 'caught feelings' for her friend's bloke, and is falling for him quite badly. She has not behaved inappropriately.

I think that language is much more useful to help you realise these feelings are normal, than having to paint anything other than a decades-long non-maladaptive bond with a spouse as limerence, which many on here are doing.

There is something very judgemental and controlling about needing to pronounce that somebody can't fall in love with a friend, and quite frankly a little mealy mouthed and sad. I do appreciate many of the people doing it on this thread have been hurt, but quite frankly that points to their own maladaptive inability to accept that sometimes feelings and relationships can be messy.

'Limerence' was a theory invented in the late 1970s by a psychotherapist. Anyone can buy into the theory- or not. It's not an absolute. It's a theory. And as with all theories, it's open to criticism. The term was first used in the publication of their book, based on them counselling many clients. New theories in books always beg the question if the psychotherapist's career was stalling so she thought a book with a new 'angle and theory' might boost her status.

I'm saying this because on MN people talk about limerence as if it's an absolute whereas it's a fairly recent concept that no one has to accept if they disagree.

Back to the OP (who has disappeared.)

You have had masses of great advice here @kerrypacker .
No one is denying your feelings, but they are infatuation.
You think it's love, but without being in a relationship, it can't be because you only know the person as an observer of their life.

If you were dating them or in a full relationship, you could make the call 'in love'. But you are only seeing what they show you when they are with someone else (who they are in love with.)

See your friend alone. You don't always have to see her as a couple.
Fill your life with other things and date men who are available.

There is something very judgemental and controlling about needing to pronounce that somebody can't fall in love with a friend,

Hang on!
No one is saying you can't fall in love with a friend.
What they are saying is that you can't be 'in love' with someone who you have never had a full relationship with (and who happens to be married to your friend.)

And making patronising comments about posters who say this is well...judgy!

I think that if the OP was to declare her feelings (which she won't of course) he would reply 'You can't be in love with me because you don't know me.'

Unrequited love tends to be when someone is in a relationship and cares more than the other person. The love is not returned. That's what unrequited means. But to get to that point, you have to be IN the relationship.
Not observing the person from a distance, putting them on a pedestal and convincing yourself they are the man/woman of your dreams.

No one is denying your feelings, but they are infatuation.

Can't you see this is minimising language?

There is an obsession on MN with trying to get women who develop feelings for somebody they shouldn't to acknowledge that their feelings are less 'real' than those of somebody in a primary heteromonogamous partnership.

This is deeply unhelpful for somebody who is seeking to develop more healthy relationship patterns, as it starts from the premise that in order to move on from somebody, that person first needs to learn to doubt their feelings.

When actually, that person needs to listen to their feelings (the OP is also quite distressed by this situation, rendering it untenable), reflect on them and figure out what they want from a relationship in future. All if this is made much more difficult if you are being encouraged to doubt your own reality.

Unrequited love tends to be when someone is in a relationship and cares more than the other person. The love is not returned. That's what unrequited means. But to get to that point, you have to be IN the relationship.
Not observing the person from a distance, putting them on a pedestal and convincing yourself they are the man/woman of your dreams.

Would you consider an affair partner to be 'in a relationship'?

I think the frequent use of "limerance" on here is just another example of MN's insistence on pathologising everything. Having an intense crush is an almost universal human experience - it's not remotely unusual. It's like the way some MNers insist that every child who misbehaves must need a diagnosis, or mothers-in-law are narcissists if they put a foot out of line, or stepchildren are evil geniuses rather than just kids who are struggling with being part of a blended family.

I had this once but I was the DH. My husband's best friend had always had many short term flings but wouldn't settle. 6 months after our wedding DH's & friend went out where he announced in front of another friend he was in love with me. DH just said I don't blame you I'm quite fond of her myself. DH spoke to me and I spoke to friend.

It was always my view that he didn't love me, he wanted what my DH and I had and he mixed that with feeling for me. A few months later he met his now wife and we never mentioned it again and have remained great friends. I wonder if things are similar with you and you want what they have rather than him specifically?

How ever you want to label these all consuming feelings - the fact remains that this is unhealthy, unsustainable and causing you distress.

Consider why you are so overwhelmed and frightened of your feelings.

Imagine a scenario where you meet up as a threesome in the pub. You think he’s a great person, you enjoy talking to him, maybe you feel sexually attracted to him? I mean why is that the cause of all this angst?
Presumably you’re a grown woman who can control her own actions so you’re not going to jump on him or make a move.

Make peace with how you feel. It doesn’t mean he’s the only man for you or you’ll never meet anyone else. You’re not in a Jane Austin novel where the heroine dies from unrequited love.

Are you going home and sobbing because you can’t have him for yourself? Why? No man is a solution to life’s issues.

I honestly think you’ve blown this up into far more of a drama than it needs to be.
It’s possibly an unconscious distraction from other stuff you have going on in your psyche.

@Emotionalfuckwit This is such a good point. Weddings bring up a lot of big emotions.

One of DH's best friends had just had his first serious girlfriend he had bought a flat with have a breakdown after her mother died and move away - and refuse to come back, in the months leading up to our wedding.

He came to our wedding, alone. Got very drunk and made excruciatingly clear to some mutual friends how surprised he was by how incredibly attractive he suddenly found me.

Both me and my DH were flattered, and the friend went on to explore a lot of different types of relationship over the following years, and moved in with a new lovely partner six months ago.

I think our friend was struggling with the enormity of his own relationship breakdown and wondering what to do next, while genuinely being happy for us, somehow. And it was all quite normal and harmless.

Of course, it's limerence! 100% through and through... Obsessing about, and mooning over some bloke that you can't have, who has absolutely no interest in you ...! Also known as a massive crush. There's nothing shameful about it, and people can't help how they feel. But yes, of course it's limerance.

Also, just remember @kerrypacker whilst you see this man as this wonderful funny and good looking and amazing Angel, and are secretly wishing you were with him, he's very likely, completely bloody different as a husband. He could be lazy, he could be a loud snorer, he could be hideously obsessed with a certain hobby (like many men are!) and he may not pull his weight around the house, or barely lift a finger with childcare.

He could be mean with money - and may possibly only keep it up for 2 minutes in the sack! You've got this limerence for this man that you're seeing as this absolutely amazing 'God like' character ... In reality he is just a man, and if he suddenly became yours, trust me, the limerence would die a death within a few days.

@Chickenkeev

There's no good outcome from pining around him or an affair. Stay away and reset yourself.

Exactly this. The OP is just going to embarrass herself horribly, and lose her friend at the same time. Personally, I think she should give the friend AND the friend's DH a wide berth for a bit. Til this silly schoolgirl crush passes.

It was always my view that he didn't love me, he wanted what my DH and I had and he mixed that with feeling for me. A few months later he met his now wife and we never mentioned it again and have remained great friends. I wonder if things are similar with you and you want what they have rather than him specifically?

Excellent point.

@IslandsInTheSunshine It is controlling because you are withholding validation of a person's feelings because they have not demonstrated their feelings exist in a situation that you understand to reach the threshold you believe this feeling can occur in.

Love is a feeling. As are many other emotions that come up in sexual and romantic attraction. Whether it is real or not is not dependent on the relationship status of the individuals involved, comforting a belief though that might be for people in long term monogamous relationships they hope to keep that way.

Don’t be so naive, you think given a chance she wouldn’t. She’s not just got a crush on him, she’s declaring her self In love and imagining marriage to him. The man isn’t remotely interested. She’s feigning friendship whilst coveting this poor woman’s husband. I assume she’s jealous of their relationship and wants what her friend has.

she needs to leave this woman and her husband alone. She isn’t her friend.

@User1789 There are so many flaws in your argument it's hard to know where to start.

No one can control what another person feels simply by expressing their own opinion. The OP can feel whatever she chooses. She can insist what she feels is love.

However, as outsiders, being asked by her for advice, we can question or disagree with the labels she gives those feelings. This doesn't invalidate her emotions.

People are genuinely trying to help her. They are asking her to acknowledge that the powerful emotions she is feeling, that are causing her distress, are not 'love' but something else.

You can only truly love someone when you know them inside out. When you have been with them long enough 1:1 to know them properly.

This love may not be reciprocated.

But to say you 'love' a man who is your friend's husband, and who you only know on a superficial, social level, through the existence of their relationship, is not love.

What’s the point in pontificating on whether it’s true “love” or not?

Isnt it more helpful if op reframes this in her mind as something she can rationalise and control- and take steps to remedy.

I actually think it’s extremely unhealthy to declare deep love for someone who you don’t have a close bond and history with.

If op starts dating men and declares LOVE /MY PERFECT MAN after a few dates it would be viewed as slightly unhinged.

@User1789 It's not about a 'threshold' that I and other posters have created to suit our arguments.

It's the fact that you cannot love someone who you do not really know.

You are the outsider here so maybe think about your own stance.

@IslandsInTheSunshine
But how on earth can you know how well somebody else knows somebody and whether or not that meets your threshold for whether or not they know them well enough to love them? Particularly from a couple of paragraphs on an MN post. To suggest you do is judgemental.

@User1789 Looks like judgemental is your fave word today!

Honestly, are you being serious with your comments or just provocative?

Unless you live with someone, you don't know them.

If you believe that being a bystander and observing a man in a marriage with your friend means you 'know him' (warts and all), so much so that you say you love him, I just feel sorry for you.

And yet if OP was posting about a new relationship plenty of posters would be coming on to tell her that “when you know you know” and that they moved in after three dates with their now DH of 30 years. It’s trite to say you can’t be in love with someone unless you’re married to them.

PPs have nailed it - it doesn’t matter what the feeling is, the point is that it’s causing you distress. In this case the only solution is to step away. It doesn’t have to binary / no contact / break the relationship with his wife. Just be busy for a bit, live your own life, and wait for it all to subside.

Op I’m sorry you’re going through this. However, I don’t see why there’s any reason to meet your friend and her DH?
Why don’t you meet your friend alone?
I am married but meet up with uni friends alone & only meet up as couples if it’s a big occasion such as wedding, christening etc…
Surely it’s harder to have girly chats etc with her DH tagging along anyway?
I think you can easily maintain a friendship and avoid her DH for at least a year, which by that point hopefully you will have met someone & the crush will have passed.

OP I've been in something like this situation several times - and the fact that it has been several times should tell you something. It means that there's no such thing as 'the one' and you can develop strong feelings and feel an attachment to many people. And honestly I would consider myself picky when it comes to men, it's just that I'm in my 50s and have spent a lot of time being single, so yes, I've had strong feelings towards a few men who have been attached.

The key to handling it is to avoid them as much as possible and, if you have to have contact, be very careful about boundaries. And try to establish those boundaries in your mind as well. If you start thinking about them, distract yourself. Remind yourself that you have these feelings for an ideal, not the person you see in passing. And remind yourself that there are other men out there, ones that might be more available to you. Whatever you do, don't feed those feelings by thinking that you're star-crossed lovers. You're not. It's just someone you're attracted to for whatever reason, who is unavailable. And you would risk far too much and make many people very unhappy if you were to act on your feelings.

I won't deny the strength of those feelings but I don't think it's helpful to argue about whether it's love or not. Personally I think you have to really know someone to know if you love them. Other people don't think that. But the fact is, he's married to your friend and you would be doing something really awful to do anything to the detriment of their relationship. And as pp have mentioned, I would start asking yourself why you want someone who isn't available. Once I did that, I found someone to be in a relationship with, and I no longer have these crushes or infatuations.

It's what the OP is experiencing. It's a mental health issue, where you 'fall in love' with an unobtainable person as a way to deflect from childhood or other trauma

That’s a bit of a stretch. I dunno why everyone has to be traumatised these days. Its just infatuation.