To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

@ChiaraRimini

I think you need to deal with your own situation OP, which sounds really awful, and I get how angry you are about it

What situation? I've been divorced for 14 years and I'm very happily remarried. I'm not angry about "my situation". I'm angry at people minimising the damage caused by these things or trying to victim blame.

I was raped two decades ago. I get very angry when people try and victim blame rape victims or offer insufficient support. That isn't because I "need to deal with my situation". It's because I have empathy for rape victims.

You're again doing it, trying to imply my disgust towards OW (and OM) is somehow a flaw in ME rather than a completely healthy reaction to shit behaviour from those people.

This is exactly the problem with infidelity. People who have no clue of the devastating affects on victims consistently try to imply their disgust towards the offender isn't permitted.

It is!

I'll be disgusted by OW and OM forever. And cheaters. Because they're selfish wankers with no integrity or morals. Not because I need some kind of help!

@ChiaraRimini

PS I see you've divorced now. I really think you should concentrate on your own future now. You say you are a member of a online infidelity support group and I wonder if this is helping you or if you are "stuck" and can't move on while you keep fanning the flames of your own anger with it

First of all I haven't asked for your unsolicited life advice. Nor indicated to you I have a problem that needs solving.

Second of all, I will continue to work in supporting victims of infidelity and rape for the rest of my life. Not because I'm "stuck" but because it's a valuable use of my time.

But thank you for proving my point very well.

Had a woman who'd experienced rape started a thread on sentencing for rape, and shared that she'd been a victim many years ago and worked supporting victims, absolutely no one would be telling her "I really think you should concentrate on your own future now. You say you are a member of a rape victims support group and I wonder if this is helping you or if you are "stuck" and can't move on"

Absolutely no one

And therein lies the problem. I assure you the infidelity caused me far more trauma than being raped did, but so many women absolutely insist on trying to minimise it and imply the victim is not allowed to feel or do whatever they want to.

If I choose a good use of my time is to help other people going through what I went through, that's a brilliant use of my time -thank you.

I stick around as a mentor to infidelity victims as there's a very sad lack of support for that, which is shocking given how devastating it is as a life trauma- research has shown its second only to losing a child in terms of the devastating affects.

Yet people like yourself make daft as a brush, belittling, judgmental statements and actually feel like they're dishing out wisdom.

I recall in the years I actually was dealing with it, how utterly disappointed I was by people's attitudes to this. As many have said, we frame this in such a different way to other acts of harm.

@bingbongbang23

I am not sure I see @Orange67being hostile to the betrayed wife, poster is merely pointing out that it is up to the husband to say no

No. The hostility was clear in the way my words were twisted to be mischaracterised and my situation was similarly.

The poster repeated numerous times that my ex husband OW "took him away". She was corrected yet continued.

The OW had sex with my ex husband, drunk, six times. She did not "take him" anywhere. She shagged him. And later had a restraining order implemented because she wouldn't fuck off.

It is entirely hostile to mischaracterise things in this way. The object is to try and belittle the wife. Patently obviously.

Wow. Someone has a LOT of unresolved issues.

People who cheat or participate in cheating are the ones with issues 🙄

People standing up for the victims are perfectly healthy.

A lot of people here have made quite clear they're in the former camp!

I say this kindly, as appreciate this is a topic close to you, but on the thread it feels that if someone dares to disagree you say they are being hostile or they are supporting cheaters.

I really don't think people are trying to put you down, it's just they have different opinions.

@bingbongbang23

I say this kindly, as appreciate this is a topic close to you, but on the thread it feels that if someone dares to disagree you say they are being hostile or they are supporting cheaters

I really don't think people are trying to put you down, it's just they have different opinions

I say this kindly, if you are discussing a question such as "is it unreasonable to think the OW is also to blame in an affair", then "disagreement" would be saying "no, i dont think she is to blame" and then perhaps giving reasons for that view.

"Disagreement" is not using strawmen to try and make up false narratives about my personal life or tell me I need help of some kind. That's not disagreement. It's a highly manipulative and toxic form of conversation.

Often of the kind people use when they haven't got any valid points to make.

People can try sticking to the topic and defending their position on the moral responsibility of someone who has sex with married people.

Assuming there are better philosophical arguments than "if you don't agree with me you must need help" 😏

I think you'll find this is the basis of an argument.
That's the whole point of the thread, victims who are being shamed into silence, for fear of upsetting women that have behaved badly.
Only in the real world it doesn't exist, ow dare not garner sympathy or support, theirs is a silent shame and the victims of betrayal are also silenced for fear of being labelled bitter and mentally unstable.

Guess who wins with this cancelling out of discussion, men mainly, then the ow who wish for their misdeeds to go away and then the betrayed as no one supports them, officially and socially.

Wow. Someone has a LOT of unresolved issues.
And that comment, that's just patronising and rude, infering that someone has mental health issues because they dare to disagree with you, it's a personal attack and not called for.

You say "has sex with" as if it's against the married person's will.

That's hit a nerve, hasn't it 😂

@Orange67

You say "has sex with" as if it's against the married person's will

No it doesn't. "Have sex with" means consensual sex. Sex against someone's will is "rape".

It's not hit a nerve 😂 it's just baffling to me that a grown woman can't understand that her husband has full sole responsibly of being committed and faithful...

I'm just going to leave that there.

@TickyTimeBomb

Wow. Someone has a LOT of unresolved issues

That comment wasn't from me. So no need to jump on me for it

My point was just because I don't agree with the OP viewpoint does not mean I am being hostile to her or shaming her. Life really isn't that black and white. I have tried to be polite but a lot of the comments back are the most hostile on the thread

I'm afraid we're getting the terminology wrong Kingofx, ow don't have sex, they make love.

Only the wives who clearly never have sex with their husbands are not having sex, let alone making love.

It's all in the language, why can't we see this, we must be stupid.

@TickyTimeBomb

That's the whole point of the thread, victims who are being shamed into silence, for fear of upsetting women that have behaved badly.
Only in the real world it doesn't exist, ow dare not garner sympathy or support, theirs is a silent shame and the victims of betrayal are also silenced for fear of being labelled bitter and mentally unstable

EXACTLY this and this thread is a shining example. It's not been possible for these people to defend a moral argument for having sex with someone married, so instead they attack the victim and twist their words or the narrative to make them out as bitter and unstable.

Many have even tried to reframe acting as a coach and mentor to victims as dysfunctional! Incredible really!

That's why I've taken time to defend against that bull shit so verocifully. It's absolutely appalling victim blaming and gaslighting.

"You're not against perpetrators of affairs because its morally repugnant and traumatises and seriously damages innocent people, you're just bitter and / or mentally unstable"

Horrendous gaslighting.

I mean, the poster above you literally took the sentence "has sex with married people" and twisted it somehow into pretending I was saying the married person was raped?!

Oh my gawd.

Desperate stuff

Again I haven't personally said you need help.

I have given my reasons why I don't agree to certain aspects of your argument.

But when I don't agree I get accused of supporting the OW or blaming victim. And I see this in other posts also.

The marriage vows I made are between my husband and I, no one else. Only I am responsible for breaking them.

OW may be shitty (or not depending on the individual circumstances), but they are not responsible for someone else's marriage... onlh their own.

No you were infering that op was mentally unstable, would you be offended if someone said you had issues ? I think you would.

Yes you can't understand why the men can't be 100% blamed for affairs and we can't understand why you refuse to take any accountability.

There is no need for a personal attack.

@TickyTimeBomb
I think you have the wrong person for half of this post, I didn't comment that OP had issues - that was Cornish Gem.

@Orange67

It's not hit a nerve 😂 it's just baffling to me that a grown woman can't understand that her husband has full sole responsibly of being committed and faithful...

Then as a "grown woman", what about using your maturity and superb intellect to discuss the actual issue rather than twisting words?

You might also note 69% of "grown up women" on this thread agree the OW is also responsible.

I'd imagine being a "grown woman" you, like the rest of us are also solely responsible for who you do or dont have sex with.

I'm sorry for that, I apologise.

@Orange67

No, you didn't say "you have issues" but you have literally just posted a laughing emoticon and said "I can't believe a grown woman ___", which is clearly, again, a personal insult and implies very strongly that I'm not capable of adult reasoning. So @TickyTimeBomb might have quoted the wrong person but the point remains.

You have also repeatedly twisted words and narratives; accussing me several times of thinking the spouse has no responsibility when that's clearly preposterous. Your last post does it again

"it's just baffling to me that a grown woman can't understand that her husband has full sole responsibly of being committed and faithful"

I've never said the OW is responsible for being committed and faithful, have I? I've said that they are responsible for THEIR ACTIONS.

I think when you're having discussions and twist words and imply things the person obviously doesn't think and never said, then you're not really making an argument. You're being quite toxic actually!

Look it doesn't matter if @Kingofx went through her h's affair fifteen years ago or fifty, the fact is she has experience of how traumatic this is, and how life changing it is, if she wishes to help others by either comforting them, helping them understand what they are going through or supporting them in their journey of healing, then she she be allowed to do so, even encouraged.

If part of that is to open up discussions about how we view the purpitators to help younger generations, whether to disuede them from participating or understanding the pain they have contributed to, then I think that can only help women and families in the future.

Perhaps the OW owes simple decency in her dealings with other people. Why she should be spared harsh judgment, along with the cheating husband, i really can't say.