To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

How do you know though that the local OW didn't have incredibly low self esteem and had been abused herself before and had serious mental health issues which were exacerbated by your friends dad treating her like shit? Calling her an "easy" shag is horrible. Maybe she just wanted to be loved and this was the only way she could feel it.

If people have issues like this I still think they can choose to find a single man. If you have trauma, transferring it to others doesn't help.

‘How do you know though that the local OW didn't have incredibly low self esteem and had been abused herself before and had serious mental health issues which were exacerbated by your friends dad treating her like shit? Calling her an "easy" shag is horrible. Maybe she just wanted to be loved and this was the only way she could feel it. You say she thought she'd be with the friends dad forever. So she obviously wanted a relationship not just sex.’

I’m absolutely sure that this is possibly the case. But betrayed partners should not be collateral damage for broken people. My husband AND his affair partner had huge ‘issues’ at the time. Both broken, both behaved appallingly to me. He broke his vows, she was dreadfully unkind to me (and in turn my small children), away from the affair in her desperate attempt to ‘win’ him. She was the initial pursuer, she was the one who pushed him leaving his family, I have all the texts so I know this to be true, these women do exist. But was she broken? Of course she was.

However until the affair I was NOT broken. I was confident, happy, in love, raising small children who I had longed for, I believed in everyone, was optimistic and for the first time in my life I felt truly safe.

Then the affair happened. I suffered with PTSD, I became hyper-vigilant, I developed anxiety and suffered with panic attacks. I am healing now but it has taken a number of years. Affairs are abusive, I was harmed as a result of their actions. If you’re reading this and struggle with this idea read ‘cheating in a nutshell’ to understand the impacts.

Two broken people had an affair. Three people ended up broken as a result. And whether or not I know someone, I would never want to be responsible for them breaking. I do not need to make a vow or promise to someone to not want to cause another human being that much harm.

Affairs pass pain on, there is no excuse to be involved in something that damaging.

It sounds to me as if you mean that hopefully, with more discussion, the OW will think twice about having an affair.

This is such wrong thinking... the partnered person is the one who can stop all of that pain happening. He doesn't/didn't choose to. What on earth is the point of trying to stop all women from engaging with the twat? He's the one who needs to stop it. There wouldn't be a single OW in the world if married men didn't seek them out. OW are undoubtedly wrong in their behaviour but ALL of the fault lies with the cheating man, however much women love to level as much vitriol at the woman as they possibly can.

This is absolutely what the thread is about... anger at the OW, and it's tired.

susieb, reading your post again, it's not as clear as I though so, if you are talking about the partnered person understanding sexual consent and betrayal impacts better then I'm 100% in agreement with you.

@Susieb2023

My husband AND his affair partner had huge ‘issues’ at the time. Both broken, both behaved appallingly to me. He broke his vows, she was dreadfully unkind to me (and in turn my small children), away from the affair in her desperate attempt to ‘win’ him. She was the initial pursuer, she was the one who pushed him leaving his family, I have all the texts so I know this to be true, these women do exist. But was she broken? Of course she was

More or less word for word the same here. I am quite sure they were both "broken" but as you say that's no excuse to push that onto an innocent person.

However until the affair I was NOT broken. I was confident, happy, in love, raising small children who I had longed for, I believed in everyone, was optimistic and for the first time in my life I felt truly safe

Exactly the same as me. I hadn't had the easiest life and felt I was finally safe and okay.

Then the affair happened. I suffered with PTSD, I became hyper-vigilant, I developed anxiety and suffered with panic attacks. I am healing now but it has taken a number of years. Affairs are abusive, I was harmed as a result of their actions

Identical to me. It took me five years to be even vaguely normal and I had to give up the job I was very proud of because the PTSD was so all encompassing I couldn't be reliable. It took eight years to get back to health and I am "safe" now in a new life that I love, but I will never be the same person as I was before I went through this.

I understand not everyone has the same experience - I have friends who've dealt with infidelity like water off a duck's back but I think if you are the kind of person who believes in marriage being forever, and truly trusts your spouse as well as the general decency of others; then experiencing this can be like waking up in a warzone.

Not to mention all you lose around it. But I read posts and listen to letters and stories from OW and OM and they have absolutely no idea of what they are doing - or at least they haven't thought about it sufficiently. In my personal case the trauma and difficulty to me would have been slashed in half if the OW had "gone quietly" when asked.

However, she was "troubled" as you say, and she wanted to "win" (I honestly don't think she wanted my husband but she had created a fantasy in her mind that if she managed to make him love her that this would solve all her problems. Looking back, I can't really fathom what happy ending she felt would come from more or less trying to strong arm someone into a lasting relationship but as far as she was concerned if she wasn't going to get him, she was going to hurt him. And the target became me and my children.

I agree with you, as I have said many times in this thread, that most people who engage in infidelity are damaged or troubled or somehow looking to feel better - but not many give much thought to who they are harming and how.

I certainly feel like my 30s were a wash. Sick, crying, ill, financial problems - all because two people had a short affair (few weeks) and it's a completely senseless act. Neither one of them meant anything to the other - so not really worth doing.

I feel so much for all the people going through this - it's truly awful.

I think that most people would rather find out sooner rather than later, if for no other reason than it helps the plan what to do next. If someone is fragile then however they find out it is going to be hard. There is the risk that you might not be believed but that's not on the other person
I know I'd have rather some told me

I do think if you are falling for the oldest lines in the book and having an affair with a married man, you want to believe him, despite knowing he's lying to you. That doesn't necessarily mean the OW is as or more to blame, but they do get what they deserve.
Also, see Carrie Johnson- can't even trust her husband to have a glass of wine with her deliberately chosen 59 year old nanny, and has to have her mothers spy on them. A life of paranoia and mistrust. Cant say I feel sorry for her TBH.

@Angrycat2768

I do think if you are falling for the oldest lines in the book and having an affair with a married man, you want to believe him, despite knowing he's lying to you

This works off assumptions all OW need false promises to continue the affair. Really that's more romantic affairs. A lot of them aren't based on that, they are more like FWB and either both parties are happy with that or one is hoping for more!

@leatherboundbooks I'd rather know too, but I'd rather find out from a trusted and safe person that someone seeking revenge or something.

Oh, I'd want to know as soon as possible from any quarter.

To be used by a h who is getting many of his needs and comforts met at home whilst having extra benefits of a new sexual partner and maybe an emotional romance is hardly the stuff of fairness.

All benefits of home and marriage stopped from my end when I knew, that was the only up side, no longer doing one iota of anything for him.

In many cases it usually works out as it should with both types of women, the wives and ow realising the men were just selfish immature bastards, age always catches up on someone's past and like they say, you reap what you sow.

Regardless of excuses in life, justice could find you, you can't control everything and everyone around you.

To live a life with a clear concience is beneficial to the security of your future and your peace of mind, what we desire when we are younger is not necessarily beneficial in our older age.

Yes, I am just in two minds. I can remember OW calling me like it was yesterday. Her objective wasn't to inform me - it was to try and get rid of me as exDH had told her he wasn't leaving me. So she tried to inflict absolute maximum damage and lied quite a lot to make it sounds worse to try and hurt me. I can still feel that moment like the world was collapsing around me.

I'd much have preferred being told gently by someone who cared about me.

It wouldn't be revenge, it would not be for the OW, to hurt her but for her unknowing husband so he knows what is going on and can decide what to do next ASAP . He has been robbed of informed consent for sex too, maybe she too is directing family money towards the affair too and he needs to k ow that too
He may choose to ignore you but it would be his informed choice

@Kingofx the OW told you herself, that is almost unbelievable, insult upon injury, but here I am assuming the worst and thinking she was doing it to hurt you further when she might have not known about you, and was apologizing after discovering the truth either way I'd be hurt but in the second scenario id bot be blaming the OW who had been lied to and made her decision based on lies

@leatherboundbooks

Possibly true for some cases. In my case she just thought it was a strategy to get him to love her because she was a screwed up individual.

A very screwed up person for sure
Can't get my head round that

It’s very difficult though. Our whole female friendship group (friends from school, so very established!) broke up when one gently told the other her husband was having an affair. The married friend never spoke to that woman again and tried to make everyone take sides. People didn’t want to and she saw that as a snub, when all were just trying to look out for her.

It’s much easier to blame the other woman, rather than the man you put your trust in and loved. You don’t know the other woman (and if you did it’s unlikely you’d love her more than your husband), so she can be easily demonised. You can blame who you want, the office if they met there for hosting too many office parties, the postman for delivering their love letters (if they were conducting a post war affair!), but really they’re not the person who broke your trust.

You can blame who you like, but I’m not sure how it helps in the long run. Most affairs start with consensual sex, and if they don’t it’s a police matter.

@Torganer

There are circumstances where I wouldn't blame the other woman. For example if she didn't know. Then it would be perhaps reasonable (even moral) to text the spouse and let them know.

If the OW however texts or calls the spouse during an ongoing affair, they are not doing it for good reasons: they are hoping that they will break up the marriage for their own benefit.

If the OW texts or calls the spouse after being dumped by the cheater, they are doing it for revenge.

So really, in the second two cases, they are probably not a very nice person and not only are having (or have had) sex with the person's spouse - they are actually happy to deliberately hurt the innocent spouse directly if they feel they gain something from it.

It's not a case of saying "oh my spouse had an affair therefore anything this woman does to me is completely fair game". That's not really true. People are responsible for what they do.

As I said early on in this I was unknowingly the OW. The only thing I’m not proud of ( because I behaved the best I could with my knowledge the whole time) was one night I was supposed to see him and he cancelled. I was furious. Then I got drunk. Then I searched him on socials. Then I found his wife ( picture was of them both) then I got an acquaintance ( not friend) to message her asking if they were still together because I was so worried.

Then BAM. I was not expecting the results! She did deserve to hear it from him. So that was a bit shit. But I honestly just thought maybe she wasn’t a socials person anymore. It was a horrible time.

I would never ever go after someone I knew was married. But men are good at lying and covering up and excusing and sometimes women get caught out by that.

I don't agree with either the OW telling the wife - this is surely never for any good reason. It's either to try and break up the couple, OR to try and get revenge on the AP when things have gone tits up. None of this is helpful or kind to the wife.

Similarly though, I don't agree with the betrayed spouse telling the OWs husband (assuming they are married). Again, I can't see what a good reason. It's done to hurt the OW - which I understand the wish to- but in reality will hurt the OWs husband much more (and they are a victim too).

@ASCCM

As I said early on in this I was unknowingly the OW. The only thing I’m not proud of ( because I behaved the best I could with my knowledge the whole time) was one night I was supposed to see him and he cancelled. I was furious. Then I got drunk. Then I searched him on socials. Then I found his wife ( picture was of them both) then I got an acquaintance ( not friend) to message her asking if they were still together because I was so worried

Then BAM. I was not expecting the results! She did deserve to hear it from him. So that was a bit shit. But I honestly just thought maybe she wasn’t a socials person anymore. It was a horrible time

I would never ever go after someone I knew was married. But men are good at lying and covering up and excusing and sometimes women get caught out by that

This sounds pretty understandable, but if anyone out there is an OW or thinks they might be and is considering this, please don't do it. I think the best way to do it is to tell the man you're involved with that you think he's still married. If he chooses to, he can "prove" it. For example, ask him to post publicly on facebook you on a date together. Ask to go to his home or meet his friends. If he's making excuses for that or acting shady, he is definitely still married and feeding you a pile of bull shit.

As for the moral obligation for the wife to know - yes, I think that's there. But maybe the best way to handle it is to give the married man a week to tell her or you will. This way she can find out from him and not have the added trauma of a weird message one night

@bingbongbang23

Similarly though, I don't agree with the betrayed spouse telling the OWs husband (assuming they are married). Again, I can't see what a good reason. It's done to hurt the OW - which I understand the wish to- but in reality will hurt the OWs husband much more (and they are a victim too)

No, it's done to ensure the affair is over and both spouses are in full awareness and can ensure nothing "goes underground" and further betrayal and pain doesn't happen. The OW gave up all her rights when she cheated on her husband. The key goal here is to secure safety for the spouses and ensure they are not being further abused.

No. This is a man you do not know or care for. And a situation you know nothing about. The information could cause the man (who is innocent) immense pain. He could already know and this would simply bring everything back up. The situation at home could be volatile and then you have no idea of the repercussions for the OW (and/or children).

I agree the man deserves to know. But he deserves to hear it from someone hw knows, that cares for both him and OW and has some idea of home situation. Is completely reckless otherwise.

And for all the same reasons (and for the intent reason) I do not think the OW should tell wife.

The innocent parties deserve to know, but not from people who are so invested/angry and biased. I can only see more hurt and pain in either of these situations

@Kingofx

In your post under when talking about the OW telling the wife, you say

As for the moral obligation for the wife to know - yes, I think that's there. But maybe the best way to handle it is to give the married man a week to tell her or you will. This way she can find out from him and not have the added trauma of a weird message one night

Not sure why you have such a different opinion when it is the husband versus wife finding out. I don't think the husband would like the trauma of a weird message night from the betrayed wife any more than the wife would like a message from the OW...

I do agree with you on moral obligation for them both to know, but find it strange why you think the method of telling should be different depending on who the innocent party is 🤷‍♀️

Nothing to do with gender.

One action is to end affair and protect those involved.

Other zct is needless spite.

In both cases, the person being told is innocent and wronged party. They both deserve to be told by someone who cares about them and does not have an ulterior motive/agenda.