To think it's perfectly fine to also blame the OW

[Kingofx]

I see so many infidelity posts on here with replies saying "don't blame the OW, blame your spouse"

I agree, the spouse is the one who broke their contract and their choices are to blame, but if the OW knew the man was married and persued the situation - even going as far as to battle for someone else's spouse- then I think they are a shit person.

I've been a member of an infidelity support group and while full of stories of weal, deceitful, pathetic excuses for husbands - the stories are also full of quite cruel OW.

People with no empathy, who will often harass the wife, refuse to accept NC and generally act with malice.

I can't picture taking someone else's wallet much less their husband. I think the OW is an adult in these situations and completely deserves contempt.

AIBU to think we give the OW too easy a ride?

If she knows he is taken and still shows interest, it’s on her too. A joint deception and disregard for you.

@bingbongbang23

I don't really agree.

An affair is an illicit relationship that shouldn't be happening. There is no contract, no kids, no home, no finances. The people in it have no right of protection.

If an OW decides to tell the spouse, she is always doing so for revenge or to try and get rid of the wife. Completely selfish motives, and the worst person on earth that the wife needs to hear it from.

That action will likely cause significantly more damage to the innocent spouse as well as the elements of the marriage (home, kids, finances) so I think doing that is always the wrong thing to do.

By contrast, if a spouse finds out her husband is having an affair with a married woman, then she has excellent reasons to tell the other spouse.

First of all she is a friendly ear, not a co conspirator, she is a fellow victim and she is not doing it to destroy the person's marriage or for selfish reasons.

Second of all, it is one of the best ways to ensure the affair is really over. That way the woman can secure her home, family, kids, finances without more abuse and deception.

Both spouses should be aware, so they can take care of themselves and their families.

This is why if you pick up any affair book or speak to any affair counsellor they say:

1. If you are the OW please do not contact the wife.
2. If your spouse has an affair with a married OW then DO let her husband know.

This is nothing to do with cruelty or revenge, it is the two injured parties securing themselves and their children in the most sensible way after their spouses engaged in deception.

First of all she is a friendly ear, not a co conspirator, she is a fellow victim and she is not doing it to destroy the person's marriage or for selfish reasons.

She may be a victim and not a co conspirator but unless you're that person you have no idea of their reasons. I think plenty of hurt wives would want to destroy the other woman's marriage as revenge. And no matter what the reason it will be for selfish reasons. Even if she's "trying to secure her own marriage". That's a selfish reason as its about her marriage. Not the OWs husbands marriage.

You're saying that no OW (even if they were originally unaware they were an OW and hence was not a co conspirator) should ever tell the spouse as its selfish and cruel. Even if they just genuinely think the wife should know. But yet you want to tell the OWs husband because you genuinely think he should know and because YOU want to secure YOUR family and home etc.

Thank you! You articulated that far better than I did.

@Dwappy

You've got some of the most batshit logic I have ever heard on here.

Saying a woman taking steps to secure her own marriage is "selfish" is like saying someone is "selfish" for putting up CCTV after they have been burgled. We all have a right to protect out home, finances and children and in such situations where you have been traumatised and put at risk in all manner of ways, then it's entirely sensible to take sensible steps.

The OW has no rights at all.

That's what you get as the bit on the side.

I am increasingly persuaded with every post you make that you might be dating a married man?

It's nothing like putting up CCTV though is it? No other people are involved in that.

You were talking about telling the OW husband. And you originally said that doing that wasn't cruel or selfish. In fact you said he SHOULD be told. And then you said next that it was so the wife could secure her family. So if she's only doing it for her benefit and not his then that is the definition of selfish. It could destroy his life so you could secure yours.
I'm not talking at all about the OWs rights. I'm talking about her husband. You just say that's what she gets as a bit on the side. You were talking about husband though and why he needs to be told. Why does he deserve this?

It's nothing like putting up CCTV though is it? No other people are involved in that

It's exactly like that. You take reasonable steps to defend your home, family, children from invasion of any sort.

You don't keep secrets for a cheating spouse and their cheating affair partner.

It is not in the least cruel or selfish. Don't be daft.

If someone were having an affair with my spouse, I'd be very happy for her spouse to contact me and let me know and for us to engage one another and exchange information - ensure we were both getting the full story and establish safety for ourselves within the parameters provided by the two twats cheating on us.

I'd be far less included to express gratitude to some scorned affair partner calling to try and hurt me. Which is almost invariably the reasoning behind it.

As for them doing it "because they felt I had the right to know", the only possible way that would be even close to a reasonable excuse if if the woman didn't know he was married when she was having the affair. If she did know, the idea my wellbeing would be on her mind is for the birds.

It's not though. The CCTV affects absolutely no one. Telling the OW husband affects him. And possibly any children they have.

You seem to think the wife and OW husband will have some sort of camaraderie if she tells him. Sorting through the affair together and how they can secure their families. Because as they're both victims together they will engage happily together sharing information.

If a man rang you up and said "just so you know, your husband has been fucking my wife. Just thought I should tell you so your marriage can be as fucked as mine." Then hung up. I don't think you'd be so happy to hear from him.

I also don't understand why you don't think an OW (especially if unaware she WAS the OW originally) would genuinely think the wife would want to know. That she might feel terrible but thinks the wife should know what an arsehole her husband is. It seems only the husband of the OW could possibly have decent reasons for ringing you up. But the OW never would. You say you'd welcome a call from the husband telling you. Because obviously you think you deserve to know. But not from the OW though. You don't deserve to know anymore in that situation. Because apparently her intentions could never be genuine.

Dappy, can I make a suggestion? Instead of arguing with me, why don't you just start a thread and ask people who have been cheated on?

I have never come across any woman who's been cheated on who would not want to the other person's spouse to tell her, and also to have the chance to ask questions and get to the truth. That's a very key element. The other spouse is, during that process probably your only real ally.

I am sure you will find women who were cheated on who might want the OW to tell them, purely so they weren't being deceived any longer, but a lot also would not want to hear it from the person doing it. In infidelity books, this is up there with "catching them in bed together" as the most traumatic way of finding out. The OW is not your ally, you cannot trust them any more than you can trust your cheating spouse.

I can also assure you that in those circumstances, you would not want to "break up" the OW's marriage. Quite the opposite. You want her spouse to get involved so she is very much held accountable and kept out of the way so you can deal with the mess you have just had made of your entire life in peace.

Here is a quote I am taking from today from an infidelity forum:

"In my personal situation, the OW husband found out about the emotional affair that had been going on for a couple of years between my husband and his wife. They were all colleagues, and fortunately we live on opposite coasts. Instead of this man contacting me and letting me know that I was living a lie, he confronted both of them and my husband and his wife agreed they would end it. He didn't tell me because he didn't want to hurt me or in any way affect any of their jobs. It's been 18 years, and to this day I could slug him bc he neglected to send me the memo"

I have never come across anyone who has felt differently on this topic, so you can argue until your face turns blue but I just think you've not got a clue.

You have some very strange though processes @Dwappy, so to be clear, an ow has the option to reveal or not reveal the affair to the wife, but on no account should a betrayed wife contact the ow's husband.

That sounds fair.

Can you not see how self entitled that is ?

I am a bit more worried @TickyTimeBomb that there seems to be a complete inability to distinguish between the fact that both betrayed spouses would be - regardless of circumstances - on the same team. Ie: the team that wanted to truth, the team of the innocent, the team who wanted the affair to be dead in the water so they could heal from the nuclear explosion foisted on them.

Then OW is NOT on that team. She is on the team that has been lying, deceiving and destroying innocent people's lives so she could get her leg over. The idea she'd have "genuine intentions" is one of the most screwed up philosophies I have ever heard. Her only genuine intention is either to shag your husband or to destroy him.

I just find it bizzarre, that an ow, should be able to have the option of returning to a husband whose's in the dark, and should be kept in the dark so as giving multiple options for the cheating ow.

There is no real concern for the husband, they cheated on them, why would/should they have the right to say their husband would be hurt by finding out.

The concept of truth and knowledge is frightening in this poster.

It truly is a warped sense of logic and justice.

I don't know if you were referring to me, or another poster.

I said I agreed husband should know, no debate there. My point was that I did not think it was right for the person to be telling them to be the wife of the OM. Too many mixed emotions, too close to it and I do not feel in best interest of the husband. Net, my concern was for the husband ans not the OW

Some of the thinking on here is actually bordering on dangerous now.
The wronged wife is always an ally of the betrayed husband? Even where he is abusive, controlling, violent?
There is a great deal of quoting of opinion based on personal experience as fact, and extrapolating that that can be applied universally.
I could counter the assertion that the wronged husband is an ally that deserves to know, with my own lived experience of wronged husbands exacting violent revenge, up to and including murder, on both their wives and the OM.
Neither can be proved as universally applicable as people are all different.
Yet the narrative on this thread is to divide people into some automatic hierarchy of good and evil based only on their role in an affair.
At the top, we have the betrayed wife, who at this point in the thread seems to have become some sort of saint, incapable of any motive not based in pure altruism, and any act she commits, by its nature, is for good. Beneath her, her 'only ally' the betrayed husband. Who absolutely must be a thoroughly decent chap too. Then we have the cheating husband, another straight up guy who was regrettably persuaded from the right path by the evil OW. She at the bottom of the morality pile, who always deserves all she gets. Presumably up to and including her husband's wrath, whatever form that takes.
This thread has contained some interesting perspectives, but when people are unable to see the difference between their own experience and a universal truth, and take it upon themselves to urge others to act in accordance with their limited world view, it starts to become a liability.
Personally my 'advice' would be to never attempt to bring the anger of a man down on another woman unless you're comfortable with the risk of her being physically harmed. It's a highly irresponsible thing to do.

The cheated on husband is now the villain???? Oh my days!!!

I

No, they’re not saying he’s necessarily the villain. But men have been known to react violently when they’ve discovered that their wife is cheating on them, which has led to them murdering their wife and her OM.

The cheated on wife knows nothing about the OW’s husband and or the state of their marriage. For all she knows, it could be abusive.

No, and it's interesting you're using the language if good and evil again. It's extremely simplistic and reductive.
Its perfectly clear from my post that I am pointing out that not all betrayed husbands will fit your narrative. SOME husbands of OW react with anger, violence and aggression to their wives betraying them. SOME cheating women have been assaulted, revenge raped, thrown out of their homes naked or in night clothes, been forcibly removed from the country. SOME have been disfigured and others have been murdered.
SOME OM have been assaulted and killed by betrayed husbands.
I know both from my professional experience and also from the news that SOME betrayed husbands do these things. Just as you know from your personal experience and that of the people in your support group (who clearly share your rather specific outlook or they wouldn't be part of that group) that SOME betrayed husbands are the allies of betrayed wives.
Neither your experience or mine is true for every situation. The difference is, by pushing your version and instructing people to disclose to the 'ally' you are so certain they will all find in the betrayed husband, you may be putting women at risk.

Right. So this woman has made the choice to have an affair. And you're saying that her victim has to keep silent about it to protect her against potentially bad consequences?

Maybe she should provide her with an alibi? Offer to babysit?

When you have an affair, YOU have decided you're happy to live with the consequences.

They might include divorce. Losing your kids. Financial ruin. Losing your job. Social isolation. STDs. Your spouse committing suicide or otherwise reaching violently.

They are all YOUR PROBLEM.

NOT YOUR VICTIMS.

Not even 1%

Personally my 'advice' would be to never attempt to bring the anger of a
man down on another woman unless you're comfortable with the risk of
her being physically harmed. It's a highly irresponsible thing to do.

Woah, hang on, do you realise how much violence is created in the homes by warring partners when a man cheats, do you think all men are lovely to their wives when cheating.
Do you think when they argue about being suspected of an affair they are all reassuring and kind.

No, when affairs are involved in the marital home, this is exactly the time whereby men will punish and be domestically violent, but I suppose in your book that's no way the fault of the ow who has inserted themselves in someone's marriage.

That is the point, if you have an affair with a married man you are placing a wife in danger, a cheater is not a sensible or fair person, ask the police and how many call outs they go to due to accusations of cheating and the violence that ensues.

So we know men are physically stronger than women when there is discord but apparently only the betrayed wife can cope with this not the chating ow with her husband.

You are mad to suggest violence is only applicable to one situation.

Disgusting that you only wish to protect the females who conduct affairs, and not the ones who are victims of them.

I am saying (as clearly as I know how!) that anyone who deliberately acts to cause an unknown man to be angry with his spouse is taking a risk with that woman's safety.
You may decide in your own anger with a woman your husband has slept with, that you don't care about the risk to her safety. You may decide she deserves whatever consequences may be meted out to her. That's between you and your conscience.
I am saying that imo (and I would hope the opinion of most other women who are well and rational) the consequences of adultery should not be assault, rape or death.
And that while a betrayed wife may not be obliged to actively help or protect another woman, its a far cry from that to taking a deliberate action that risks her safety.
If you're happy to pretend there's no risk, or justify taking it, that's your choice. It wouldn't be mine.

You are mad to suggest violence is only applicable to one situation.

No one said that.

Disgusting that you only wish to protect the females who conduct affairs, and not the ones who are victims of them.

No one said that either.

And that while a betrayed wife may not be obliged to actively help or
protect another woman, its a far cry from that to taking a deliberate
action that risks her safety.
If you're happy to pretend there's no risk, or justify taking it, that's your choice. It wouldn't be mine.

Oh my days, a deliberate action that risks her safety.

Have you seen any crime shows, one of the main reasons for murder is to get rid of a wife for monetary reasons so the cheating man can be with his affair partner to start a new life.

How nice do you think cheating men are at home, you are clearly deluded in thinking they are as cordial as they are with the ap.

Most cheating men are fucking vile to their wives.

I am saying (as clearly as I know how!) that anyone who deliberately acts to cause an unknown man to be angry with his spouse is taking a risk with that woman's safety

And I'm saying as clearly as possible: any risks she has taken are her own choice. If someone has an affair with my spouse, I will act to protect myself, certainly not the OW.

So you're happy to put a wife at risk but not an ow ?

Absolute double standards.

How about not having an affair in the first place, that could probably cut down the level of domestic violence in family homes.

And if you believe they are not linked then you are very very ignorant or incredibly cruel for dismissing the impact of affairs.