To be scared of my nearly 6 year old?

[itsreallymylife]

Dd is nearly 6 and her behaviour seems to get worse every day, she has angry outbursts multiple times a day and hits and screams.
She's recently discovered the F word and repeats it and screams it at everyone, no amount of discipline seems to work in fact the more I try the more she fights.
She's not an only child I but she is the youngest and the others are not like this.
She deliberately urinated on the kitchen rug last night because she wanted to play a board game one time after I'd said that's the last game.

She literally won't let anything go she had just smashed the twister board over my head and hit her sister until I peeled her off because I said she wont play if she keeps swearing now she is screaming at the top of her voice and swearing repeatedly.
She's just hit her sister again and is now kicking the lounge door.
This is every day as soon as I get her from school, she won't go to bed or do anything I ask and I have no way of controlling her.
Dh tries but she is exactly the same with him.
She can scream relentlessly for ages and ages and won't be soothed or she'll lash out.
How am I meant to manage her?

You need to get a referral to a child psychiatrist asap. This is not normal behaviour.

I could have written this about my 5yo girl. Sometimes I think that when it's all written down it looks as though she's barely functioning, but in fact she copes perfectly well 95+% of the time. She is also a total angel at school, but then lets it all go at home- I know this can be indicative of ASD masking, but it's also very common to some degree in most young children.

Of course it's always sensible to seek expert advice if you're concerned. Just don't forget that there's also a spectrum of NT behaviour as well. From observing her peers, I think this age group are still "behind" socially and emotionally. Whilst my daughter's behaviour is not what I would expect from a 5yo, it would be perfectly normal in a 3-4yo.

But of course I could be wrong, and mine could have some sort of additional needs as well! For the moment I'm just trying to go with calm, fair, lots of celebrating her strengths, and actively watchful waiting.

Sounds like autism to me. Girls present very differently to boys and it seems as she's masking it well at school but can't manage it at home too. You sound like a brilliant family, I hope you get the help you need xx

Many years ago this book helped our family:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Explosive-Child-Understanding-Frustrated-Chronically/dp/0061906190

There is also a website now with resources - videos etc of implementing the approach
https://livesinthebalance.org/walking-tour/

I think you have a lot of good advice here. One thing I would recommend is to check her adenoids and tonsils too. My DD had sleep apnea and was always so tired and aggressive. She wasn’t waking up a lot but she had interrupted sleep. After the surgery, her behaviour improved a lot. Check online the link between sleep apnea and ADHD. I know a lot of people will dismiss it saying their child sleeps ok. The NHS dismissed us so we went privately and got it done. She’s so much better now - sleeping and behaving better. Even if this isn’t an issue at least you can eliminate it.

I haven't read all the replies but (if allowed) could you record one of her outbursts to show a health professional? Not sure if allowed or not. It doesn't sound like typical behaviour of a 6 year old. I would start with the GP and go from there. Could you go alone without your daughter present?

I agree with the others. She likely has additional needs and is masking at school. She needs to be assessed by professionals as soon as possible.
In the meantime 'The explosive child' by Ross Greene is worth a read.

I agree with others that it is not usual behaviour.

At the school where I work we have a child that behaves practically the same as what you have described, with the difference that they display that behaviour at school but not at home as far as I know. So it's the opposite as your situation.

But it is not uncommon with a lot of children to mask the problems at school and then have the outbursts at home. I have a friend with a child that has autism and in that case that is how it happens.

As others have advised, you should push for help, try the get a referral from your GP so that she can be assessed by a child psychologist. The school could also help you with this, although there is no much they can provide as evidence since she is not displaying the behaviour at school.

One thing you could also do is to keep a diary with a record of all the incidents and try to record what happened right before the outburst, what she did during it, and what helped to solve it or how did she calm down. With this you could try to see if there is a pattern for triggers that could be causing the outburst and help you to prevent them. But sometimes there is no pattern. Also, if possible, you could record/video the outburst and have this as evidence if it is the case that no one else (e.g. school) have seen these problems. I say this as it is also a common occurrence that when children are being observed by a third person like the educational psychologist they don't behave the way they usually do and sometimes show their best behaviour which is not a true reflection of how they behave under normal circumstances.

Hope you get the help you and your daughter need soon and things get better for you and your family.

I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this.

This sounds like autism. Get her the help she needs, start with the GP, try to pay for private assessments if the wait is too long.

OP this must be a bit of a shock reading this. Part of you must have felt it was a phase and it might be but if it ends with something that needs to be diagnosed, it’s an in going life thing. Lots of hugs from me and I hope some of the excellent advice here, helps you. X

Sorry to hear about your daughter. Please try and get a recording audio or video. It will help explain the problem if she is masking. Contact SENCO as for an assessment, get the GP on side. If you can afford it have a private assessment whilst you wait.
Stress to them about the behaviour at play dates. Possibly this behaviour is going on unnoticed in the class and once pointed out they may note it too.
Sending you a hug.

Sounds quite a bit like my DC who has an autism DX and anxiety.

We don't play overly competitive games.

Is she better in the holidays?

Could not read and run.

Reminds me exactly of my former best friend’s little sister. She was exactly like this. Physically fighting, screaming, banging at the doors - just not normal reactions to things.

Her and my friend used to physically fight until we they were SIXTEEN - instigated by her sister, my friend just wasn’t having any of it.

I do believe she had mental health issues and should have had help. She did stop with the violence but to be blunt can be a bit of a dick still over things that aren’t an issue.

She is 30 and not settled down. Not saying that settling down is what you should do but

think she would like to. Goes for bad boys again and again which most people would learn by 30 and bought into the whole fake lips fake tan fake Hobbs etc when she’s absolutely stunning naturally. Not slating fake lips / tan / boobs but she did not need any of that she had/has model looks - I think she has deep insecurity issues.

I know this seems a lot of detail but wow your daughter really sounded like her when young.

Get your daughter help. With a mother like you she will be ok. All the best 💐

In the short term as you probably won’t get help straight away I would keep after school time very chilled. Divide and conquer if possible after they get home and give them all time to decompress away from each other if you have the space.
it does sound as if she may have some additional needs, school can be completely overwhelming for some children and even though they are “ fine in school” they really are not coping and threat s why the huge explosions happen.
there is a fantastic Facebook group “ not fine in school” where you will meet alot of other families going through the same things and get loads of advice. X

Hi OP. Lots of good advice above. It can be very hard to get help, so I'd recommend looking at Explosive child because it has practical stuff that you can do right away and won't do any harm.

Other thoughts: Usborne do an 'all about' series about emotions/friends/family/diversity. That and Molly Potter's books can be helpful for talking about emotions and social skills & they're not preachy.

Cooperative board games are a godsend. Peaceable Kingdom have a few. Transforms play.

If there are rows between siblings it can help to run a peace and reconciliation commission session when people have calmed down. You're not trying to figure out who is wrong and needs telling off. You're trying to get everyone involved to give you your version of the story. It's amazing how much it can lower anger levels.

Good luck. None of this is easy and it takes time.

I agree with this, I would mention PDA to your GP and possibly read up on some techniques on handling PDA behaviour whilst you wait for help because getting any kind of diagnosis can take a while. Children/people with PDA particularly hate the word ‘no’ or being told they can’t do something, instead of saying ‘no’ try offering her some other options so she feels she still has some control over the situation. She sounds very angry and anxious, she’s probably masking a lot at school which is why her behaviour is so awful when she gets home, she’s probably also very tired after school which doesn’t help.

Hi OP, I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
It really reminded me of my daughter the term she started Y1.(2 years ago).
Its a very difficult transition to more formal learning for some children.

I spoke to a GP who really listened and referred her to CAMHS -but of course this was batted back as an issue for school. Who of course said she was fine and well behaved so it went no further.

We did get some allowances for being late which helped,(the average morning involved hour long outbursts of trashing the house and violence), but the school family support worker brushed her off as defiant and clearly thought I was a wet drip of a mum.

Firstly things improved after that first term- we moved bed time earlier for more calm time, despite her not sleeping until 9 or 10 from stress I think. But more calm
time helped. And she settled in more.

So this may well be things at there worst for you. But my DD is now 7 and things got v bad over the summer again. Other posters will have a good advice. But actually thank you for posting this as the comments remind me my instincts about my daughter being ND are right, and we shouldn’t have to accept no help because they bottle everything up and school
dont see it. So agree with taking videos and keep a dialogue with school, pursue CAHMS but it can take years, so ultimately I’m looking at saving or borrowing for private help. I really hope things turn a corner soon and you get someone who listens.

So sorry, this is tough. Have you started keeping a diary of incidents (including anything that might be a trigger); and/ or recording an incident. This could be helpful to show your GP and school. My son wad dyspraxic and found early years in primary school really challenging until he was diagnosed and support put in place.

Also, you probably already do this, but lots of praise when she's NOT tantruming, to say how great she is for being calm etc can help lots.

Agree an autism assessment makes sense, talk to school and see if they will do a referral .

Sounds very similar to my 10 year old. She was diagnosed with asd earlier this year. Speak to the senco. She may not be presenting at school though.

This sounds exactly like my son. He also had glowing reports from school - then huge, explosive, violent meltdowns at home.

Because he wasn't doing it at school, it was hard to get help so we went private in the end and were told the behaviour was anxiety related. He was then diagnosed with autism. I'm not saying that's what's going on with your daughter obviously, but maybe worth looking in to.

Things that have helped... A book called The Explosive Child, this is not diagnosis specific and I found it really helpful in understanding triggers for his behaviour. Banning all screen time also had a huge positive effect, even though he wasn't watching that much before. Visual plans of what's going to happen when for after school/weekends. Seems to really reduce his anxiety.

Keeping notes of meltdowns and what's going on before them, and also recording some of her behaviour may help in getting help for her

Good luck op x

Sounds like she is masking her behaviour at school- very typical of girls with neuro diversity. Holds it all in until she gets home- her safe space, And all of the sensory overload and listening to instructions, concentrating just explodes at the slightest thing when she gets home. I’d go to the gp or self refer (with the help of school too) to a first tier family support service, where we are it’s Malachi. I’m sure school will help. I know we do with children and families in similar situations. Good luck.

Not necessarily autism. Could be a number of things, including anxiety.

Just wanted to send some support. My son was very similar (although also not great at school) and has since been diagnosed ASD. We’ve had no support since but just knowing the reasons behind the behaviour does help. Good luck.

You've had lots of great advice OP. It struck me that your OP says you're scared of her. I know it's hard but you need to work on reducing your emotional response. She's expecting you to hold the line. If you're thrown off kilter by her big emotions then you're both left floundering. You don't need to be scared of her. She's a child who is communicating as best she can.

We had some similar behaviours with our DC who has anxiety. Our after school routine involved a drink and a snack on the way home from school - they really needed to refuel as soon as they came out. Quiet time on their own to decompress/chill with no demands when got home. And lots of positive reinforcement. Sticker/reward charts didn't work. It just created something else for them to be anxious about so they'd almost deliberately sabotage their own behaviour so they didn't have to worry about when or if they'd mess up iyswim.