To have toddler at dog euthanasia

[Mr85]

Our dog is now approaching the end and it won't be long until we have to make the call we all dread 😔

Our 3.5 year old son knows what death is. My wife recently lost her grandfather, who he knew a little, but didn't attend the funeral. He did attend my Nan's burial, although he never met her, and acted impecebally.

We've explained that the dog is ill, might not get better and may soon die. When he heard this he teared up and gave him a hug saying he didn't want him to die and he'll miss him so we know he understands what is going to happen.

My wife and I have slightly conflicting views but which are close enough that we could do either with the others blessing. I think our son should be there as he is part of the pack/family and it's a part of life. My wife thinks he is a little too young and it might cause him too much additional upset.

We've already decided what to do as, let's face it, using MN to make big life decisions is not the best idea. I'm just curious as to what everybody thinks.

I think our 3.5 year old son should be there: AIBU?

What would be your motivation in doing this? It is not a 'facts of life' lesson it is a kinder death yes, but not a natural death. This would likely form your DCs first permanent memory. It is our job to gradually introduct DC to adulthood and protect them as children. Why? Did you have an abusive upbringing?

I don't know.
On the one hand, I agree that it's important for children to understand and be involved. The end of life of pets is a good way for children to understand about death. I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of your dc being with your dog when he is put to sleep. We had our cat put to sleep recently, and he just went very quietly, My dc are older but I would have liked them to have been there. I was very conflicted about the ethical side if putting my cat to sleep, and am still thoughtful about it. It isn't straightforward.
However, what happens after the death is quite important, and I would be thinking about that in your situation. I'm not sure any of the scenarios are nice for your dc. I carried my dead cat home in the carrier. Not was weird and not nice really. It felt too sad. I buried him at home though and that would have been a nice thing for a small child to be involved with. The alternative would be leaving the animal at the vets to deal with, which again I don't think is very nice for the child.

I think a a society we are misguidedly choosing to sanitise the experience of death, and I agree with your desire to involve your ex in this somehow, but have a think about the specifics and maybe there is a nice way to involve him without him having to deal with the unpleasant parts. Good luck

Just seen you're doing it at home.

Maybe involve him in the burial but avoid the actual procedure as it sounds like it can be less predictable with dogs. Good lucky

Yea go for it sounds a great idea. You can ignore the dog who will need you in its last minutes - who gives a shit anyway this learning experience is more important to you- explain to Tarquin how the needle goes in, what happens next, explain the thrashing around can be normal, pissing itself is too, as are the barks/howling etc. All while your wife is in bits and the kid might be chattering on about when the dog will wake up it will be better - because of course your 3 year old has no clue how permanent death is.

Then you can smile satisfied that you have given your child this wonderful opportunity and explain to all your pals how wonderfully Liberal you are and a much better parent than those who deny letting their 3 year olds witness the death of their best pal. While your pals will no doubt think you are a total prat.

No, definitely not an absolutely fucking awful idea.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

At that age I think it would not be a good idea. I’m an anaesthetist and in a young mind worry that talk of an injection and going to sleep then watching the dog die may be confused with the process of an anaesthetic. What if he breaks and arm or gets a nasty cut that needs a GA for stitches really not good starting with an hysterical kid. I’d stick with sometimes old animals and people are too poorly for doctors or vets to save.

I grew up on a farm and now live on
one. I’m fairly laid back about what the children are exposed to in terms of dead and sick stock but I wouldn’t allow them to be there if the dog was being put to sleep. We always have it done at home and it’s usually very peaceful but still not pleasant.

Our retired greyhound's body fought the euthanasia. Suffice to say no child should be subject to that experience. I'm still traumatised by it years later.

YABU, for all the reasons already mentioned but mainly because it's about the dog and not about you, your child, and their education.

Please focus on the dog.

NO.

Have you actually been there before when a dog is put to sleep? Whilst it’s best for the dog it’s not nice. It’s not them lying in a bed peacefully going. In out vets it’s in the consultation room, bleak as it is, but in your arms. Do you want your child to remember the dog like that! With I would imagine your wife if tears (not sure about you as it’s a ridiculous idea)

Exactly what happened to me!
My post from upthread:

"Also you never know what's around the corner.
We had a cat put down when DD1 was about five. She wasn't there obviously. But I explained it was like when doctors make people go to sleep for operations but they give a bit more drugs so they go to sleep forever and it's very peaceful.
The next week she broke her arm and had to have it set under anaesthetic - they initially thought it would need pinning. She said "what if they give me too much, like George?" I said "they won't".
"But what if they do???""

I work in the health service and half of me thought I should be checking the anaesthetic drugs in the anaesthetic room and half of me didn't want to be "that mother" (anyway I wouldn't have known the correct doses) so I didn't but I felt guilty about that. Thankfully she was fine, lovely anaesthetist and all very calm. But it was unfortunate timing with the cat.

I'm old enough to have had several pets put to sleep over the years and they have all been very calm - it's upsetting reading about the traumatic cases - is there a reason why this happens in some cases?

Our last dog was put to sleep a couple of years ago, the vet was so lovely and it was very calm. The vet got a nice fleecy blanket and made a nest for her on the table and she just snuggled into it. She really was ready to go, in hind sight after the event I had underestimated her suffering and decline. The vet spoke beautiful words about her being a faithful loved member of the family and her spirit going on, it was lovely. And the dog just drifted off to her happy hunting grounds.

A small child would almost certainly have spoilt that calm atmosphere so apart from it being bad for the child it is also bad for the animal.

Tbh I know my last post was a bit shitty - I was a bit shocked- but honestly op you have to reconsider this.

The risk of it just being even more of a shit situation than it already is if your kid is there is just too big.

The dog is the most important being here. Second to that is you and your wife being able to say you did right by the dog at the end, so you have no regrets. I'll never get over how fast my dog went, she went down like a sack of potatoes, and I wasn't fast enough to get to her to hold her in literally the last conscious seconds - DP and the vet were holding her up so I was stood back a little. Even the vet was a bit surprised and even though it was fast it was really traumatic and I've never forgiven myself for not at least having a hand on her fur as she collapsed and being totally focused on her.

Your 3 year old might be quiet so you can both focus on your dog, but I've known a lot of 3 year olds and they are hard wired to be inappropriate in a lot of situations. Sometimes that's funny. But christ can you imagine if your kid starts babbling on asking what's for lunch, or "when doggie wakes up we can go for a walk" "what does that needle do" "so what's happening now" "can doggie have a biscuits now" or if the kid starts absolutely bawling their eyes out.....your attention will be drawn away from your dog when it literally needs you the most, and from you and your wife comforting each other.

Honestly this is such a bad idea its actually pretty upsetting to hear its being considered. Please think about your dog a bit more in this.

And OPs wife if you're reading this I think this is very much a valid "put your foot down" situation.

I've noticed you're not engaging with the posts who are telling you what damage it could do to your child and how developmentally inappropriate it is for them. Can you shed any light on why that is?

I had nightmares about my cat’s PTS last night and that happened two years ago. I keep going over and over the awfulness of a beloved pet knowing that you are enabling mercy killing them - neither dh nor I ever really have or will get over it.

tbh, I found one of my pet cats had died in the night when I was about 15 and that was fine and not traumatising - she ‘didn’t wake up’ (I hope it was like that).

I noticed that also. Heinous.

You might give your child a lifetime phobia of needles if he witnesses the pts process. He might associate injections with death and reject jabs for himself later on.

Why? What gain is there to have your child witness this .please don't do it.

I've been with a lot of pets over the years when they were put to sleep. One in particular, an elderly, very very loved dog, whet horrifically wrong. She was in absolutely screaming gasping agonies and took a long time to die. Fucking awful. I'm still traumatised over a decade later. Don't take a toddler, especially for an elderly pet with potentially weak veins.

I can put that in context. The area I work in includes provision of IV access for the hospital ie siting long lines like PICC/Hickman/Ports, usually for chemo patients but also for other reasons like long course of antibiotics etc.

One afternoon we had two patients with EXTREME needle phobia.
One of them talked about how it has blighted his life. Interestingly they both ascribed their phobia to the school nurse and as they were a similar age we did privately wonder if they had been to the same school. Anyway we were able to help them through having PICC lines sited at the start of their cancer journey, it went well for both and they had both been referred for counselling. But I did feel very sorry for them both, not just because of the cancer but because having a PICC line sited is probably the least traumatic part of the cancer treatment they were facing and they had tough times ahead. And they did both have insight, talking about difficulties it had caused throughout their lives.

Immunisations.
Going to A&E for a few stitches to a minor wound plus tetanus booster.
Those sort of events most of us get through without much difficulty.

Don't set a child up for this.

So it's a REALLY big deal if the child develops a needle phobia.

The problem with teaching 'lessons' that use stressful situations is that you can't control what lesson your 'pupil' actually learns. They can miss the point you wanted to make and fixate on something that scared them.Consider your motives for doing this.

Also, you should know that its not uncommon for abusers to kill their victims pets in front of them. Or to threaten to do so. That might be the lesson your 3 year old takes away. Especially if you punished them for some misdemeanour beforehand.

I'm so sorry for your situation, but it would not be a good idea for your dc to witness your dogs death.

It's going to be very emotional for all involved. Your dc will see you upset and this will no doubt affect him/her.

Sorry, YABU

"I've noticed you're not engaging with the posts who are telling you what damage it could do to your child and how developmentally inappropriate it is for them. Can you shed any light on why that is?"

I suspect its because they feel exposing their son to this might toughen them up - especially if op is a male - and so they can maybe have a bit of a flex about how mature and calm their son was witnessing the actual real time death of the dog. (If it goes to plan in that respect, which it wont).

We all like to think we've helped prepare our kids emotionally for life events tbf but this really isn't the time or age for that 😞 as a pp alluded to if I heard a friend did this id probably subconsciously try and keep a bit of an eye out for the kid, as much as I could anyway as I'd probably withdraw from the friendship, and if i had a kid who was friends with theirs I'd try and encourage different friendships. Not because of the kid but id be a bit concerned at what values my kid might be exposed at that age if the parents thought this was in any way appropriate.

No absolutely not.

1. It might not be as peaceful as you think. I had a cat PTS and it was awful because he took so long to fall asleep once he was given a sedative. The vet told me to stop talking to him as he couldn't go to sleep. I was furious. I said I want the last thing the cat hears to be my voice, that he knows I am here. Then she did something with a needle where she inserted the needle near his heart I think, pulled up to check there was blood in it, then injected. It took ages for the cat's heart to stop beating. Truly awful. At a different vet with a cannula into the vein, the cat was sedated instantly and passed away within seconds.
2. You could give your child a needle phobia as someone else has mentioned. I suffer from this and it's horrific. It has lifelong consequences. I was also exposed to inappropriate medical settings as a young child (ITU for a relative with head injuries - back in those days no one saw a problem with a child seeing things like that). I've got a phobia of doctors and hospitals and it's an absolute nightmare.
3. Your child could be become very emotional and distressed causing more distress for the dog. One of you might have to leave the room with your child and not be able to be there for the dog.
4. You might struggle to contain your own emotions - it's hard enough as it is without having to reassure a small child too.

Personally I think you would be foolhardy to do this. Somehow I get the impression though that you are going to do this anyway, just posted here in the hope people will tell you it's ok. Well it isn't.
The child can learn about death and understand death by the very fact the dog is nearing the end of its life and becoming weaker and then the absence of the dog afterwards.
You can involve the child in some kind of funeral, depending on what you have decided to do with the dog after death, to say goodbye to the dog once it has passed away.
And obviously, the last goodbye before the dog goes to the vet, but actually in the room??? No way.