School bans ALL physical contact

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The parents haven't been informed by the school of this rule, but the kids have been told they will get a warning for the first transgression and then a detention is it happens again. No physical contact at all permitted. How are they going to enforce it and is this the case is any other school (from a quick Google I found that a school in Essex has done this) and AIBU to think it's ridiculous? I have 2 DCs in this school so it will affect them.

And you conveniently missed the part about working on “His” attitude as well, but you homed in on what you think is victim blaming.

Cherry picking from a post you reply to, why don’t you?

Are you a teacher?

@Appleontherocks the same thing is happening to me with the quote thing and it's driving me mad!

‘Honestly, the amount of time I have wasted in my career attempting to untangle "playfighting" that goes wrong - it is much better for everyone to have the no contact rule in place’

Same here! Hours wasted every single week in my role.

Laughing at the thought of parents going to the Governors about it 😂. The outrage!

I think when I was at school people only got in trouble for kissing. I remember always walking arm in arm with friends. You might have got a "put her down" if your boyfriend was hugging you from teachers but that's it. Isn't touch part of developing many kind of relationships?

As for work never worked somewhere you can't touch. I hug my colleagues. A team leader was giving another a massage yesterday. Some times some of the men walk past and touch each others arses. They have worked together for years and have good relationships. I've been hugged and kissed on the cheek when leaving jobs.

Honestly

SA is illegal, bullying is against the rules - these things still happen

Banning all contact won't stop that. Those that do these things either do it secretly or lie to the teachers or get away with it regardless, this will carry on anyway. But now the good kids who want to follow the rules and do the "right" thing will be terrified of natural, normal human contact because its against the rules.

The best way to learn about consent and boundaries is to interact with others and establish their reactions.

We then need to be able to empower victims of inappropriate touch to speak up and make sure they feel safe to do so, we need to listen to them when they report it and we need to firmly deal with the perpetrators.

Perpetrators get away with it because victims don't feel they can speak up, blanket no touch rules won't stop that. They'll sus the "blind spots", which teachers will be lax about rules, use tables and locker doors to hide it, blame an accident...

And what will happen later, when "She" is out in the big wild world, where there are no rule on on touching?

Pretty sure there are. There are rules in the workplace and even laws about touching.

That isn’t a legal requirement.

https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/publications-log/2020/when-to-call-the-police--guidance-for-schools-and-colleges.pdf

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/sexual-harassment-in-schools/

@Dilapidateddilapidate A sexual assault on a child has to be reported to the police. It is up to the victim if they want to pursue that any further, but a report must be made. In fact, a report is required to access any ongoing support the child may need.

Wow o
Speechless

@Foxesandsquirrels that is guidance, it is not a statutory duty. A DSL can hear a dozen stories a day where a child considers that they consented but was drunk/on drugs/ underage etc so that could be assault- the police are not called every time. That sort of work with at risk children is an ongoing dynamic process where sometimes the police are involved, sometimes they aren’t.

If a child pitches up and discloses they are being sexually abused at home, or raped on their way in or something then obviously that is a different story.

Ive never known a victim be refused medical help or counselling because they chose not to report to the police.

KCSIE 2023 doesn't state that. It's a 'should' be considered, not a 'must' be done/will likely involve somebody at the LA level deciding whether it meets threshold.

Pg 110 - 135 detail this situation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1181955/Keeping_children_safe_in_education_2023.pdf

Furthermore, https://www.npcc.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/publications/publications-log/2020/when-to-call-the-police--guidance-for-schools-and-colleges.pdf

provides guidance. It does not state that a report must be made to the police.

The process flowchart for harassment says that sexual harassment is something that the school should consider reporting to the police.

I think it's appalling. But who ever expected the Police to give a shit about it in the first place?

@Dilapidateddilapidate I'm only talking about sexual assault. If a child discloses that they were sexually assaulted that must be reported.
Look up lighthouse in Camden. They don't accept any referrals before a report to police has been made.

@NeverDropYourMooncup Yh it's shocking really but I didn't mean harassment. I meant sexual assault which is what the PP was referring to. She said if the no touch policy has been triggered because a child was assaulted in the school, she wants to know about it and what's to know if the school reported it to the police. This would break safeguarding guidance I believe. At the very least, LADO should be informed and asked for advice.
No parent would be privy to this information.

So in one camp: "children should be taught appropriate physical boundaries"

And in the other: "children often don't have appropriate physical boundaries, so that physical contact leads to fights or sexual harassment and / or assault."

Easy fix: teach your child when, how and why it is and isn't appropriate to touch others. Your child. Teach them before they get to school and keep keep keep reinforcing. Do not allow 'play fighting', do not allow coercion in physical form and sanction until this rule is understood.

When kids know how to behave appropriately, they can be allowed to touch one another. It's earned, not a right. That way all children are safe, rather than the 'needs' of some to 'explore' or learn to the detriment of others.

Honestly, the number of parents who turn a blind eye to their kids being violent is INSANE. It's NEVER okay.

The issue with that is if those parents are allowing it to happen , do you really think they are getting teached ?

That's the scary bit. It includes sexual assault in the 'decide if you want to report it' category.

With a good DSL, Head and LADO, it happens. But not all DSLs or Heads are good - and then you need a good LADO to accept it reaches threshold.

It might have stemed from reports of physical abuse (innapriproate touching etc) not hears of this before but aware in religious schools they have strict policies. My BFF was kicked out of A-Levels for holding hands with her Boyfriend. Not on school hours once school finished...... So yeah places exist.

I am sure there is a reason. But as parents they incident needs to be shared with you all. They shoule have contactes the parents ahead of time or called a parents meeting to discuss it.

Hmmmm

As someone mentioned there are parents who teach their kids leasons at home and life skills and social skills. But there are a lot of parents who have kids and throw them to the streets to be raised. I know! I have an uncle who has done this and his kids are feral. My youngest cousin aged 5 nearly stabbed my father. You bet that was the last time we saw them. And that was not the first incident. There is 0 discipline.
Even the Nursery kicked him out and gis older siblings and the schools are refusing to take him until he behaves in a proper way. He ended up starting school aged 6!!! But his behaviour and that of his siblings is awful. The oldest 2 who are 20 and 18 have no social skills and exhibiting very worrying behaviour.

@NeverDropYourMooncup that's really strange. I wonder if this differs from LA to LA as well. I know for sure Lighthouse in Camden doesn't allow referrals without a police report.

@Foxesandsquirrels which legislation are you referring to when you say sexual assault must be reported? All the legislation I know and @NeverDropYourMooncup posted, says that basically the school should report sexual assault through their channels (so the LADO etc), and a decision is made about the police on a case by case basis- the same as sexual harassment.

Different LAs can have different policies but the statutory duty (or lack of!) is the same for them all.

What happens in P.E. lessons? How could they learn to play rugby without touching in scrums? Football, basketball, netball without bumping into each other? Gymnastics without supporting each other? There are hundreds of occasions in sports where you can't avoid touching other people. Those of you who teach in these schools - can you tell me how the P.E. teachers manage?

I agree with you Tandora.

@Dilapidateddilapidate not referring to legislation. It's been eye opening to read what you've posted though. Without outing myself I had to do a referral for a child to lighthouse and until the parents agreed to report it to the police, they wouldn't take them on. They were adamant all sexual abuse needs to be reported to the police before they take it on, so this may well be their policy which I assumed is the law. When I was helping this family report it, the police also said the same as lighthouse. All sexual assaults on children needs to be reported. It is up to the victim/family of they want to do a recorded interview and seek persecution, but a report must be made. I have no idea what legislation this is on. I'm assuming not the same as the school one which seems absolutely bizarre.

Can't you just ban playfighting then?

I would imagine it's to stop girls being groped, and stop boys being pushed around.

I had 2 female students stroking each other regularly in class and found it odd.