To wonder why relationship, marriage and kids are still seen as a ’ successful’ life?

[OnedayTwodays]

Reading here and also IRL so many people, still, thinks that this the ’LifePlan’ everyone not only wants, but must have.

Some thread about perhaps not so nice people, people say it brings them joy to know they end up alone and old - as in being single is seen as some kind of a punishment.

Single, or god forbid if your childfree, stilm have to explain why.
Say your single and when asked you say you don’t hook up or having casual arrangement or whatever, and people look at you like you have two heads.

Will we ever move on and stop assuming everyone wants/lives the same way?
Will the stigma ever go away?

Why is it that even now being in a relationship/kids is seen the proper, mature, right way to live?

I think things are changing a bit compared to previous generations. But still a long way to go!

Procreating is the only reason we are here and, since this is a female site, having kids within a marriage is the most secure option for women.

I always think this but I really think it has to do with how people are raised. Especially if you’re raised with a cultural/religious influence which millions of people are.

You’re meant to go to school, get a good job and make good money, meet someone, settle down, get married and have kids. A lot of people really do believe that’s the whole meaning of life.

I personally don’t think that way and I think whatever makes someone happy is enough. However, a lot of people think that if you don’t have kids and/or have a partner then you must be so depressed and lonely. I don’t ever see that changing tbh

Because genes that inspire procreation will inherit the earth. But lots of people do chose alternative life plans and not all if them care what other people think.

Yanbu - I'm 45 and I've been realising lately just how much I was brought up to see it that way and I kind of decided that was my destiny and felt I'd done well to achieve it when not all my peers who would like to have done so. I'm not a wildly ambitious or adventurous person so I don't feel I would have been off travelling the world or having a stellar career if I hadn't, and very happy with DH and fabulous kids, so no regrets. But, in a world where women don't have to be reliant on someone else for survival, there's no reason for it to be a gold standard anymore, and it's not one I'm going to sell to my kids.

I mean, it wasn't even hard peddled to me, but I still absorbed the message, so it's a powerful one, but getting less so I think.

I don’t like the fact there is a stigma and women should be able to choose what life they like. I had a successful career and helped set up a charity about 12 years ago that’s still assisting people so would like to think I have done something worthwhile. I actually thought I would never marry or have children as it wasn’t on my radar, but I did. I think a truly happy long term relationship is the best thing I have achieved because it seems harder, mainly because there are so few truly decent men around.

I have just been out this morning with a very good friend who never married or had children. She is almost 60 and an absolute hoot, I do not judge her at all. I think the one difference obviously is she has only ever had one wage coming in so even though she had a good career as a civil servant her life has been tougher money wise.

I think perhaps it also felt like an achievement to me to some extent as I'm a bit of a weirdo, I have niche interests and I'm just not into the stuff most people are into, and I didn't have any relationships until my 20s. Probably a lot of people who knew me at school would not have expected me to be the marrying having kids type, or possibly that I'm not the sort of person who'd find a partner. There were never 'plenty of fish in the sea' for me.

My brother used to be married but does not have a child. It could still happen, but seems unlikely now (he's in his 50s). I do feel a bit sad for him, as I think he'd have been a good dad and enjoyed the experience, and because I think it was more his ex's choice than his. But I try to fight against these thoughts as I know I'm probably projecting my own feelings on to him (I love being a mum). He seems perfectly happy!

There are a growing number of people these days who don’t want children, but I think the majority of people still want to be in a relationship with a significant other.

I think it feels like an achievement to me because I didn't have those things for a long time. I really messed up in my early twenties due to substance abuse, had a baby alone and then got in an abusive relationship which ended up with broken bones and being a single mum to a further 2DC. I really was in absolute poverty and if I'm honest with myself I might have had freedom in my early days but I was incredibly unhappy and didn't know myself at all.

I'm now in a stable marriage, have an excellent career, a high ish household income, I am a good mum now and I am a homeowner. I feel so so conent and I'm terrified of losing my DC, my DH, my career and my house and feel like I've won the lottery on a daily basis. I'm not sure if it's the 'things' of DC, husband, house, career that made me content though? Maybe it's because I know myself now and I have done a shit load of psychotherapy so I know I thrive with those things around me. The stability of family life is my friend. It serves me well as it forces me to stay straight, take responsibility and not go off the rails. I'm certain that some people would need other things to get to know themselves and feel content and that everyone has different measures of success dependent on their circumstances but to me they feel like success - but that's just success to me IYSWIM?

Agreed OP – it is ONE way to live but not the best or most superior way and it needs to stop being pushed/assumed as the default, and other lifestyles denigrated or viewed with suspicion.

My parents got a lot wrong but one thing they always instilled in me was that I could follow any life path I wanted and be true to myself, they didn't think much of conformity and tradition themselves so it always felt natural to me to just follow my instincts and desires without concerning myself with what other people thought. Certainly when I was younger I actively wanted to be different and not like the masses!

It might be a personal achievement for someone to get married, have a successful relationship, have a child etc – and that's totally fine, we're all allowed to be proud of stuff in our own lives – but I do think it's sad that society celebrates and elevates these things over and above all the other achievements a woman could make. I mean, on the most basic level, most people can have sex and become pregnant, and any unhappy couple can get married, as evidenced by many threads on here!

I remember a post on here from a woman who said people were prouder of her for getting married than they were at her graduation or for getting a promotion, for example, and I just think that's quite bonkers, and it surprised me that it so many people, even those she hadn't spoken to in years, were so invested. I don't honestly give a monkeys about people getting married, I mean, if they're friends I'm happy that they're happy but being proud just seems odd, proud of what? That they happened to have the good luck to meet someone they fell in love with and decided to marry?

I think it's hard for people to see in to the future beyond when they are young, fit and healthy.

I am a district nurse and visit many elderly people. In my perception I would say the married couples or people with children seem to be far happier. I hear a lot from elderly people without children say say they are lonely.

Obviously it is not a rule and there will always be some that are happier, but I would say it is a pretty accurate perception of a lot of people age 78+

I am a district nurse and visit many elderly people. In my perception I would say the married couples or people with children seem to be far happier. I hear a lot from elderly people without children say say they are lonely.

Usually I’ve seen and heard that the one’s who were married, partner has dies and those who had kids are sad because in many cases the kids don’t bother come to see them.
The single/childfree one’s have learned to be independent, don’t need constant attention and have made connections, so they seem to do better.

Of course people find happiness in different ways. The thing is, the older single people I know - my mum, many of her friends, my aunt - are unhappy being single and knowing they will probably spend the rest of their lives alone. They feel lonely, and life is harder doing everything yourself especially as a single woman.

IRK i don't know many who see kids & marriage as success markers. A LT relationship yes but career is the main marker.

@OnedayTwodays

Honestly, in my opinion I would say they were both in the same camp. I do see a lot of people who have had a spouse die and children not involved and they also tell me they are lonely/ unhappy but I wouldn't say anymore so than the ones without (in my perception).

Obviously that is no reason to change the entirety of your life's hopes and dreams, but I do think there is something to be said for giving this some slight consideration.

If I was talking about myself, I am pathetic at being single. I have been married for 9 years now. When I was single, I would have lovely times with my friends and family and enjoy activities, but it is somewhat more enjoyable for me when I have a partner.

In regards to children, I let my husband make the decision because quite honestly, I didn't really want one. When I became pregnant with my first I cried and cried for weeks 😂, got to the first scan and then fell in love, the same happened with my second. Now, they are quite honestly the light of my life. I have fun with friends but have far more fun with my family.

The thing is, the majority of people have or want families so it's hard to give conflicting advice to what they themselves find more enjoyable. I think that's why so many people feel that their choice to stay single or childless is judged. I don't judge or look down on people without, but it is hard for me to accept theyre happier because that's not my experience and we can only really base our opinions on our own experiences.

I think as a species we have thrived by being part of a community, having other people around us - usually extended family - and by raising the next generation to keep the stability of our tribe.

Obviously the World is quite a different place now but genetics and biology still make us feel happy and safe having a family around us so naturally people feel this is the 'normal' way to be.

Genetically though it has always been good to have members who want to explore and do other things which is why we probably travelled and developed tools, technology etc.

Loads of younger people aren't interested in having dc

A combination of misogyny (women's worth is determined by attracting and snaring a man, whereas men who remain single into their 50s are bachelors, George Clooney etc. because men are worthy just on their own) and the idolisation of motherhood as the greatest thing a woman can achieve.

I'm single and childless and I don't really care if other people think that's weird. The only thing that bothers me is how expensive it is being alone.

I think I meant 'ensnaring' - pretty sure 'snaring' a man would be illegal.

I think generally we are social animals, so there are very few humans who would be happy living in total isolation.

It’s really important to nurture our relationships , whether with friends, romantic partners or children, because loneliness is really bad for your health, worse than smoking, apparently. Generally it’s not a good idea to rely on just one person, but to have a network of close , high-quality relationships.

It's literally what we're put on this planet for. To find a mate and have babies. Keep the human race running.

Luckily, people are now realising that enjoying life is just as valid as populating. (Of course you can do both at the same time, but there are other ways to live life, is all I mean).

You are joking?

If not I guess you haven't seen the Childfree board and the many male posters.

But, you are joking. Right??

@ thedevilinablackdress

I don't agree that everybody is happier having children or a marriage. But there is a new study that has been published stating that 25% of men are now childless, 12.5% of them desperately wanted children and of those 12.5% almost half are unbearably unhappy in life.

They are not small numbers.

(I believe this was a study from the UK but do not quote me on this, it could have been from the USA).

Couldn’t disagree more. I really don’t think I was put on this planet to procreate.

I also disagree with your premise that having children within a marriage is the safest option for women.

That certainly used to be the case. It’s not automatically true today. There’s a growing number of female breadwinners and a large number of women contributing to the family pot. I’m fact for these women getting married is often the risky option because you are putting your capital at risk (and potentially your children’s capital).

I really see attitudes like this as part of the problem. Women are still collectively shunted into wanting marriage as a one size fits all goal when it’s by no means the only option. Yes marriage works for some but it’s often a trap. Nor is having children automatically for everyone. You can have a very fulfilling life without children.

Social attitudes have not kept pace with economic realities here at all but although marriage and children can work it’s by no means a panacea. I think attitudes are changing but it’s depressing that this is still seen as the ultimate goal for women.