Mrs and Mr Smith

[Oysterbabe]

When I write client letters I always put the woman's name first in the address and write
Dear Mrs & Mr Smith. The letters have to be checked before posting and my boss always swaps the names back because 'it doesn't flow properly'
AIBU for always writing the woman's name first?

I don't see the big deal? But I get what he means about it flowing, people are used to saying Mr & Mrs, not Mrs & Mr.

Mr and Mrs is correct.

It only sounds like it doesn’t flow well because we aren’t used to hearing it. Mr being first is so old fashioned. Tbh I find the whole titles thing quite old fashioned and don’t understand the point in them when I really think about it.

See below

Why and who decided this?

I think it’s just established convention. I guess that sounds bad but there’s a hierarchy to it that’s not just about sex, so if the woman was a Dr (or a Prof or a Rev) you would write Dr and Mr Smith, rather than Mr and Dr Smith.

I forget the order of the hierarchy if you have a Rev and a Dr. I think Prof would come before Dr. It’s been a while!

It would do my head in because its not what I'm used to hearing. Even receiving that letter I'd be thinking why have they done it that way.

It flows because that's what people are used to. If convention was the other way round, Mrs & Mr would sound right.

You could do it alphabetically by first name so it's equal to both sexes.

So address the letters to Barbara and John Smith or John and Sarah Smith.

It’s a flow thing. The same way most people say Mum and Dad rather than Dad and Mum. I wouldn’t make it the hill you die on.

Besides which if Mrs Smith has chosen to a) become a Mrs and b) take Mr Smith’s surname then I can’t imagine she’s going to be up in arms at a letter with a traditional salutation.

who said so?

we are used to it because, you know, patriarchy.

Carry on OP - if your boss wants to change it, that's a complete waste of time. Ask him if he wants to be thought of as a dinosaur.

Mr should go first and then Mrs, but if using first names eg in a card then the woman's name should go first. Is there a point you're trying to make by writing Mrs. first?

Surely it works the same as things like His and Hers Sinks, or a Jack and Jill bathroom though in this sense? (not sure why my thoughts immediately went to bathrooms but there we go)

Would you intentionally turn these around?

No you wouldn’t!

If she's a doctor and he's not the convention is Mr and Dr Smith

I'm afraid you're not going to dismantle the patriarchy by addressing client letters incorrectly.

Maybe donate to Refuge or Afghan Crisis Appeal instead?

YABU to think Dear Mrs & Mr Smith is putting the woman's name first.

Of course the convention of man first is patriarchal. Bizarre of posters to claim it isn't

I had this exact conversation with my DH the other day. It actually pisses me off. I went for an optician appointment the other day and said my name. They then asked me my 'title', I felt like saying why does it matter. The fact that men don't have to specify a 'title' is annoying too. Kind of as if it's only the women that need to be marked as married or not.

Are you a typist and the letters are from him?

Obviously I answered perfectly politely as it's only the stuff they are filling in on the screen 😆

And that's a load of patriarchal bollocks

Where did you get this from? I'm guessing it's American, as we don't use full stops after Mr and Mrs in the UK. So it's saying to put Mr and Mrs George Smith? No way, José. I am an editor and I and my editors' group thoroughly thrashed out this topic a few years back and it's a big no, and has been for about 20 years. Mr and Mrs is the norm, but I have no qualms about using Mrs and Mr either - if we use it, it will eventually become common usage and therefore 'correct'.

Like the people who can't say Ms but have no problem with Mrs.

My default pronoun is she. Annoys the heck out of blokes!

I got a WRITTEN warning at a local council for using Ms when I didn't know the marital status of a client. I very rapidly looked for a different job

He’s right, it doesn’t flow correctly. Whether you agree with the convention or not is irrelevant.

I think it just flows better. I would say Mr and Mrs but not uncle and aunt as aunt and uncle sounds more natural. I don't know but there might be an obscure grammatical rule to it that we all obey without realising, for example as with adjective order and why we say silly old fool and not old silly fool.