Mrs and Mr Smith

[Oysterbabe]

When I write client letters I always put the woman's name first in the address and write
Dear Mrs & Mr Smith. The letters have to be checked before posting and my boss always swaps the names back because 'it doesn't flow properly'
AIBU for always writing the woman's name first?

Why would Mrs & Mr be more correct? Do we need to come up with rules governing when either one goes first?

Depends on what you are trained by society to expect.

If it is always ladies first then we would have Mrs and Mr.
Its a little ironic if you reflect that as a whole women still make the final spend decision in home renos.

But the convention has history in that a woman if married had no capacity to enter into a contract. This can still be seen in banking where a married would have a joint loan but the bank chooses to only write one letter. So the male is allocated the primary contact. Which is "fine" so long as they still remain a financial couple and reside together

It's a bit try-hard and cringe inducing to be honest. I'd roll my eyes so hard if I was on the receiving end of that.

I think objecting to this just tells you something about the objector and their internalised misogyny.

Even the title of this thread annoyed me because it just doesn't read comfortably.

Exactly @LoobyDop. I'm always saddened about how many women are happy to go along with the wants of the patriarchy on threads like this.

YABVU. That is incorrect. Trying to make a point just makes you look like a prick.

If they are valued clients I would address them how they wish to be addressed. The Very High Pooh Bah of Nimh if they so wish.

When it shouldn't matter and organisations ask me for a title I always choose Lady or Sir or something else daft. Like filling in a form to get train wifi and so on. LNER know me as Lady Floribunda.

Ben and Sarah.
Emma and George.
Danni and Kirk.
Dan and Laura.

Those all flow right to me, as does "Mr and Mrs". As would Doctor and Mr.

The patriarchy is one thing but flow is very much another.

But it isn’t obligatory for a woman to change either her title or her surname upon marriage. Doing so is the very definition of going along with the patriarchy, so it seems a bit of an anomaly to then be upset that your choices follow other patriarchal conventions.

No, they're from me.

I get that the patriarchy is bad etc but come on, some things just sound more pleasing and it's nothing to do with sex order. Eg

Husbands and wives
Ladies and gentlemen
Men and women
Aunts and uncles
Brothers and sisters
Nieces and nephews
Lords and ladies
Mums and dads

all sound awkward reversed.

I do think though we should get rid of dividing women into married and unmarried entirely as France have done- they just use Madame for all women and girls now I believe.

Though I changed my name when I got married I have always hated anyone calling me by my husband's first name. Quite apart from anything else it just seems bonkers.

What if Mrs Smith prefers to go by her maiden name and not be linked to her husband?

These modes of address are all outdated. Thanks goodness most sensible businesses have dropped Dear Sirs from correspondence. It is now Dear Mumsnet / Dear Tesco Plc etc.

Mr & Mrs is the convention. Why does it matter if the man’s name is first? Does it really matter?

Patriarchal nonsense.

She hopefully has kept her name and its a moot point lol

I think we should go even further and ditch titles completely. Exactly what purpose do they serve?

Haha to all these people saying "it's traditional" and "it flows better". Forced marriage used to be traditional, and it used to feel natural that women couldn't open a bank account without a male guarantor.

YABU to think Dear Mrs & Mr Smith is putting the woman's name first.

This is a good point, though!

Just like Ladies and Gentlemen flows better than Gentlemen and Ladies.

This would really annoy me and I’d think you were unprofessional.

As @CosyCoffee says certain things just sound right.

I would never say gentlemen and ladies. It’s ladies and gentlemen.

Stop trying to be woke.

For work I use person one first, or any names I am given first so it can be women or men first

I also only use titles if I am given them I will write Jane and John Smith if that is what is put or Miss Jane Jones and Mr John Smith or Mr J Smith & Ms J Smith

I just follow what people put, I don't put men or women first just because I feel like it

I'm with you to an extent, but the only solution I can see is to get rid of titles and use first names listed alphabetically. The four examples given above are all alphabetical - that might be coincidental.

Or perhaps, regressing to my socialist youth, we could replace Mr & Mrs with comrade, or for those of you who don't like too many friends & comrades, citizen.

I've just had a more serious thought: addressing a letter to 2 people does not (necessarily) signify either is more important, just that they are each allowed to open the envelope.

You sound woefully ignorant of correct office procedure.

I'm thinking of having chips and fish for dinner tonight.

Quite the contrary. I think she's educated and enlightened

It's not correct procedure other than by outdated convention.