Mrs and Mr Smith

[Oysterbabe]

When I write client letters I always put the woman's name first in the address and write
Dear Mrs & Mr Smith. The letters have to be checked before posting and my boss always swaps the names back because 'it doesn't flow properly'
AIBU for always writing the woman's name first?

Things like this is why we need to do away with titles entirely, thankfully they seem to be becoming more and more redundant.

For what it’s worth, OP, I’d smile upon receiving a letter addressed that way around, and for that alone I say keep it up :)

But we have no way of knowing whether she did take his, he took hers or they both adopted a new family name.

I absolutely hate how they do this.

When I was married, I added my ex as a second card holder on MY credit card. They then started addressing letters to Mr & Mrs WunWun! It fucking pissed me off.

🙄 just write Mr and Mrs its really not a big deal. You're clearly trying to make a statement but it's really not needed. Mr and Mrs flows better as it's what people are used to saying. If we had a letter come through addressed Mrs and Mr I'd find it odd to be honest and wouldn't think that person who wrote the letter was trying to shove the patriarchy down my throat. Its simply convention.

I almost always say Mum and Dad.
Godparents are GM & GF.
All grandparents were GM & GF.

🤣🤣

I’m going to have to start saying onion & cheese crisps or vinegar & salt crisps just to try and be woke and difficult too.

Excellent list! I would also add that 'boys and girls' is the same as 'girls and boys' on the ear, so you hear both.

So the letters are from you

and your boss checks every letter you send out and has carte blanche to make any changes he sees fit under your name?

you have bigger concerns than this op

I'm just astounded at the use of Mrs. In Ireland Ms has been the standard form for a woman in official correspondence for at least 30 years. Tiny differences between countries give away a lot about the way societies work, including the way they move on as a ttitudes change.

A century and more ago women of status - reverend mothers of convents, cooks, housekeepers - would be Mrs even if they had never married (see Mrs Danvers) - the loss of that use of Mrs said a lot about the way women were increasingly visible and increasingly feared after WW1.

The advantage of getting a PhD is it doesn't identify sex.

When my mum's friends write letters to her they address them to 'Mrs (My Dad's initial!) Surname'. Is that not the most absurd thing?!! They're only in their 60's too.

Rank the relationship by power and responsibility

Men and women

Norman dictator social structure based on war and conquest
Lords and ladies (and slaves)

Family authority and division inheritance
Husbands and wives
Brothers and sisters

Maternal lines by blood and child care and likely to need charity as no access to money
Mums and dads
Aunts and uncles
Nieces and nephews

Chivalry the idea of not raping the female prisoners /war hostage
Ladies and gentlemen

Its not a ridged system but it has elements of how the community evolved.

But that's the entire point, surely? That the husband comes first in the hierarchy because he's always done?

Sadly Ms has disappeared as an option from many drop-down forms, being replaced by "Mx" which isn't the same at all.

I think this is exactly why it is bad. Because ordering is often hierarchical, it implies that men are above women in the social hierarchy. This is why it matters.

It's not 'his' name any more, if she's changed it then it's equally her name. The only reason to have a real issue with the order change is if you think that men come first, or you think it's actually his name. Neither is great

You need to get a job that keeps you busier. You obviously have too much time on your hands 🙄

Only if you subscribe to outdated patriarchal views.

Men decided it, for the same control reasons that they decided that we should legally become part of our husbands on marriage. The legal principle was called "couverture".

I have less of a problem with Mr& Mrs <Surname> if a couple share same surname, but many married women have double barrel surname so that should be split in that case.

Really hate it when joint letters are addressed to Mr & Mrs <husbands initial> <surname>, or worse Mr & Mrs <husbands first name> <surname>. That is NOT my initial or my name. That is the conventional 'proper' way, but it is very old-fashioned and I loathe it because it basically says, 'now you're married you don't exist as an individual anymore', like that idiotic woman in that annoying holiday ad who can't let go of her partners hand as if they're superglued together...

At the end of the day its your work, and your boss wants it wrote as Mr and Mrs.

Dr and Mr, not Mr and Dr.

Good point: you are putting her title first, but it's still her name.

I have a nongendered title, and have a different last name to my DP's. And yet, still, joint letters put his name first. So it will be:

Dear Mr [DP's name] and Dr [My name]

And yes, it really does annoy me!

There is no "correct", only societal norms that usually are fairly sexist.

Nothing wrong with using Mrs and Mr, apart from the fact that it burns some mens ego.

I do that with Christmas cards to married couples- no Mr and Mrs G Brown, but Mrs S and Mr G Brown, to give an example. (No I don't send a card to the former Prime Minister).