Nanny spending more than agreed on own expenses

[Saysomethingorwhatnot]

I’ve name changed for this as I post a lot in my usual name, and don’t want this linked to my other threads.

I am a single parent working full-time, and have a full-time live-out Nanny for my 3 primary school aged DC who does everything; childcare/activities/shopping/cooking/cleaning/washing/ironing/errands etc.

So that Nanny doesn’t need to constantly ask me for money to facilitate the above, I provide a bank card with a limited amount of cash available for her to spend on house/children related purchases.

I used to add £160 to Nanny’s monthly payslip to cover travelling round with the children (Nanny has own car), however I’ve recently bought a new car which Nanny knows she can use anytime (and actually Nanny does use my car regularly as I don’t at all during the week as I commute using trains).

A few months before I got my new car, Nanny asked if I could pay her the equivalent taxed cash (£30) on a weekly basis for petrol instead of through her monthly salary. I agreed as I know she struggles with managing her own money, and has asked me for advances at end of week 3/beginning of week 4 of a month a few times.

My bank has recently asked for my updated mobile details, and I’ve suddenly started receiving notifications. I received a bank notification today to say Nanny has spent the double the amount I advised she could spend on weekly petrol (so £60 instead of £30). Possibly because she was on annual leave one of the weeks, however my thought is that if she was on annual leave, she wasn’t ferrying the children around. Plus she has access to my car when with us, so I shouldn’t be paying her car expenses as well. I looked back through my bank statements and noticed she’d spent the same double amount (£60) a few times previously (either after annual leave or during school holidays).

I am a fair employer, paying a market rate salary, plus I give Nanny payslip bonuses and extra days off during the year. I can afford the extra amounts Nanny has spent on petrol as I earn a decent salary, however wondering whether I would be unreasonable to say no petrol expense except when with children and for only the agreed amount. It’s really quite sensitive, as she is very much part of our family, DC love her, and I couldn’t do what I do without her. Makes me feel I’m being petty to quibble over £30 here and there, but I must admit it has irked me. If general consensus is that I should leave it, then I will.

Grateful for any thoughts.

As it was originally on her payslip, although listed as a separate line item i.e. travel £160, I now see that she perhaps thinks it’s part of her salary, so will take it come what may.

I’m uncomfortable with the cash being taken in this way as in my mind it is for a specific item, and yes I agree with those who mentioned I’ve been a bit lax on finances as I hadn’t noticed the other double deductions until I looked back in my bank statements today.

She sounds more like an Au pair not a nanny.But I'd have an honest open kind chat with her.

Just explain that going forward the Nanny must use your car for ferrying the children around. Is she named on your Insurance? It should be very easy to keep an eye on the mileage or have some kind of record of it that’s logged at the end of each journey then petrol can be bought when needed.

My sons care team have a car that’s for his use as well as theirs if he doesn’t need it when someone is on an off day. And because he lives to such a routine I know how much patrol he uses every month then I add about half again for the carers to use when they need to nip out. To pay for it all I put the equivalent of about 200 pounds on a petrol card every month and they use it when needed. But if I used that car say to do a school run for my grandchildren I’d put about 10 pounds of petrol in the tank just to make it even stevens.

It shouldn’t be as difficult as you’re making this.

The only weeks missed are when she’s been on annual leave, and not transporting the DC.

Why? I’m sure OP is perfectly capable of putting petrol in her car, it’s not exactly a difficult or time consuming job. Even if the nanny put petrol in OP’s car, she could get a receipt for the exact amount and she has an expense account anyway.

We have a nanny and I think in your position you need to formalise any expenses and milage claims. I agree that honestly it feels to me as if she’s stealing from you and you need to quickly do something about it.

Milage should be paid at 45p a mile (or an agreed rate but that’s HMRC value) for journeys when she’s working for you and using her car.

expenses need to be with receipts. You can soften the above, if you don’t want confrontation, by saying your payroll provider have updated their advice to say this is all required.

If she is unhappy with her salary she needs to raise this with you separately but £40k seems decent without knowing hours etc.

My experience is that there isn’t a shortage of nannies who want full time hours. I know that in your situation it feels as if your world would collapse without her, so she knows she might have more power in thr relationship than a normal employee might so

We pay £15hr gross, with milage and expenses separate.

It kind of depends if there are other ways in which she is flexible, like eg with start/finish times or what duties she's supposed to do etc. It may be that because she feels like part of the family, lines generally have become a bit blurred. I'm not sure I'd pull her up (because I think she could easily rip you off for more than £30 here or there given she's got a bank card if she really wanted to) but if you want to make the lines clearer again maybe have a meeting in which you both say what you're unhappy/happy about. yours can be paying for 2 cars and you want her to use yours.

Can you just give her a salary with petrol included so no more surprise bills, obviously this would mean a pay rise. Tell her it helps you manage your money better but allows you to set an amount you’re comfortable with.

Are you sure she isn't putting petrol in your car?

You need to be clear if you are paying for petrol/her to use her own car, or she is expected to use yours. But if she uses yours she may still need petrol.
And right now it's ridiculous prices so it makes sense it would have gone up.

Then you need to decide if you're willing to pay her petrol money to keep her, or its worth losing a nanny over....sounds to me like it's not.

Bit nasty and unfair!

Thank you for this, it’s very helpful.

The ironic thing is I work at a finance exec level and have daily conversations with stakeholders about millions of pounds, but am struggling with how best to approach this with my own employee regarding tens of pounds.

Start having more formal (but not stiff) monthly meetings with her.

Frame it as a business meeting/1:1 type of meeting. It’s a time for both of you to discuss the things that need discussed, away from the kids and just the two of you.

Her- you’ve been coming in a little later than expected, the washing up soap that you buy isn’t working, she wants you to buy something else, the kitchen faucet is acting up again.
You- you’ve noticed that Jr. needs some help with his spelling in the morning. You’re planning a short break with the kids in 2 weeks.

Both-Review of expenses.

It took me over a year to find her. Hence why I’m wondering if it really is worth the hassle of raising such a small issue. She does an amazing job, and it would be very difficult to replace her (plus I don’t actually want to replace her, she is amazing).

She's an employer. Do you have the same opinion about everyone who employs someone? Bar owners? Shopkeepers?

You are clearly jealous because this woman has a very decent job and can afford to employ someone. Not her fault that you decided not to get into a well paying profession

My wealthier friend has full time nannies. Without exception they have all at some
point tried to steal small amounts of money from her, constantly losing taxi receipts or refusing to use debit cards/Monzo cards and other issues. I think she pays them
well but they see the lifestyle and that 50£ here or there don’t make a difference to her. But it’s still not right of course. Makes me
wonder if your nanny also tried to occasionally take double the amount and as you didn’t notice she felt she could continue. As PP said I would make the rules clear once again but would also check if there are other financial issues. She sounds like a reliable person and that’s hard to find. And hopefully it was.a misunderstanding.

@Saysomethingorwhatnot

Ignore the bitterness of the other poster.

I've got a family member like it.

We all have different priorities don't we and bloody well done for being a hard working full time well paid women that manages to juggle family and staff at the same time.

There aren't many of us and it should be congratulated.

Think of it this way - if she is an honest person, when you raise it she will be mortified and apologetic, it's only if she is a thief that she will react badly.

This is a tricky situation.

I have a cleaning/ironing lady who is pretty crap tbh, but we go away for extended periods of time and pay her to pop in once a week for an hour (paid), forward mail etc. whilst we're away. Have come home to cobwebs and place obviously not been cleaned properly, it's bloody annoying, but we trust her and that's HUGE as far as I'm concerned.

This nanny is a major part of your, and your DCs lives and this needs to be approached with kid gloves. I would write off the past £30 during holidays etc. but insist that she use your car when working for you and discontinue the petrol allowance.

The fact that she has to drive to get to you is irrelevant, nobody gets paid to drive to their place of work.

Just my thoughts.

In your shoes OP I would probably go with one of two options:

a) give her a pay rise that incorporates the "petrol costs" and tell her you are simplifying the pay structure, so no need for separate petrol claims/expenses. Tell her that the change makes it easier for her and for you, and means that she should end up with a bit more £££ anyway as she's mainly using your car.

b) tell her that for accounting purposes for HMRC you have to make the split between regular salary and travel expenditure clearer. Pick one of the options that PP suggested - maybe either fuel receipts, or pay per mile with a spreadsheet to record the travel.

Either way it doesn't sound mean, and gives you an easy way to resolve the situation without creating any awkwardness. You don't have to say you found out how much she was spending - both of these two options avoids any conflict but still addresses the matter.

Personally I'd go for Option A - it's way simpler for you, and it's advantageous for the nanny. Win/win.

She cannot handle money and asked for cash rather than the £30 go in the bank - isnt that weird?
Anyway, if she's shit with money that's not your problem- say no to requests for money other than pay day.
wjen she's not working ask for the card back so it's only used on days she is working. She's taking the piss.

Can you address it under the guise of having been told to tighten up on tax/expenses? I didn't think you could claim expenses on a regular commute to work though I might well be wrong. Even if I am, it still feels like the easiest way for both sides to save face if you come at it from the angle of getting to grips with what expenditure there is because your payroll company or whatever has warned you.

It may be a genuine misunderstanding on her part in which case you can clear it up without her feeling she's being suspected of something. If it isn't genuine you'll probably get a feel for that and can then decide how you feel.

When I was nannying for a family, I had full use of their car. They were responsible for putting the petrol in.
Maybe as opposed to questioning her you could just tell her matter of factly that it would be easier in future for her to use your car so she doesn’t have to pay extra on her insurance policy to take your children around?
This way she won’t take offence and leave, then you will be stuck.

You can afford not to work and/or not use wrap round care.

people are struggling everywhere

have a lil chat with yourself then pop that entitlement back in the box

It's tricky but I'd have a chat just lay down a few ground rules...it would niggle at me too almost like she thinks won't notice as it is not a huge sum...but that doesn't make it okay. She could be taking advantage as she knows she is integral to your family etc. Have a chat I think you need to...mu gut would make me say something.

To clarify quickly for those mentioning Nanny putting petrol in my car, this would be impossible, as I have a fully electric car, and charge it using my home charger overnight.