To ask why so many children are feral these days?

[ChocBanana]

I have two DC, one (13) with ASD and hypersensitivity, so she wears ear defenders and ear plugs in noisy environments.
However, today, we have had to leave a museum because of the behaviour of other kids.
I know it’s the last week of the holidays but we tend to prefer quieter places, or quieter times of day. We tend to go to museums and parks, woodlands or if we are going somewhere busier generally we go in the afternoon.

We went to a museum today near us, not a particularly big one. After about ten minutes, a mum came in with three kids and basically said “Off you go” and let them run riot. They were climbing on the exhibits, trying to pull things off the wall, picking up the listening device things and swinging them against the wall and one of them scribbled all over an information panel.
A member of staff asked them to be careful. The mum titled and says “Come on kids, we’re obviously not welcome.” Then on the way out one of them kicked a wall, leaving a scuff mark. As they left, another family came in, the was a display thing where you can pretend to dig for fossils, the two kids were throwing the sand at each other, then a third family came in, one of them, a teenager sat next to where my teenager was trying to regulate herself. She stood up and he instantly out his feet up on her bag then kicked it to the floor and put his feet up on the sofa.
The mum was chatting away to her partner, the youngest child was hiding under a shelf, then started pulling out all the display drawers at once and slamming them shut.

We had to leave at this point, my daughter was in tears.

Now, I said, I get that it’s the last week of the summer holidays. I get that many people are desperate for free things to do, and I know many children have various reasons for acting in various ways. I’m not asking for special treatment or being naive, but SERIOUSLY, AIBU to expect a certain level of behaviour in a museum?
If I am BU, any suggestions on where the hell I am supposed to take a 13 year old who struggles with people at the best of times?

My hypothesis, for what it’s worth, is that most people are stressed, and have been stressed for several years now, because of lockdowns and inflation and mortgage/rent rises and increasing levels of general public hostility. People don’t do their best parenting when they’re stressed, and children growing up with stressed parents don’t behave as well as they could.

Pretty obviously it’s down to the sort of parents who think their kids must be allowed to behave exactly as they like no matter where they happen to be, and that anyone who objects is an evil child-hater.

Sadly all too common.

I have also very occasionally known the odd parent who enjoys seeing their kids making a thorough nuisance of themselves to other people. One I knew used to have a secret little sideways smile on her face as she watched her kids causing havoc. She was someone who I knew well enough to know that she’d have thoroughly enjoyed pissing people off herself, but since that wasn’t acceptable, she got a vicarious kick out of seeing her kids doing it instead.

My kids’ friends do this! Just random screaming during play. I stop them immediately and tell them it’s totally unacceptable… in fact my kids now do it without me even having to it’s been so drummed in…!

anyway OP what you’re describing is completely appalling behaviour by those parents. Kids love to behave like that, but it’s not on in a shared space and it’s up to the parents to resolve, not staff members.

I’m on holiday and I’ve taken my primary-aged kids to two museums today they stood quietly and looked at the exhibits, they’re running feral now in the campsite play area. They know how to adapt their behaviour because I’ve always been clear about my expectations.

Simply put, people don't discipline their kids.

Hence the fucking screaming, no respect etc etc

The kids at the back of us were screaming all afternoon last week - and they are older too, not toddlers! Parents did nothing?!

I have a theory about why this is so. Because parents are working super long hours and chukdren very rarely see their parents anymore, and when they do see them they have to college with smartphones/ technology for their attention, it conditions them to be as noisy and annoying as possible. They have learnt that the worse they are, the more attention they get. Sad really, but it is our modern kafkaesque world. The volume of sugar in our food probably doesn't help, either.

stood quietly and looked at the exhibits, they’re running feral now in the campsite play area

^

This. There's a time and a place. If we go somewhere quiet and the kids play up, we leave

And no I'm NOT disregarding children who genuinely have SEN, but I do see an awful lot of kids labelled with these when actually it is simply down to bad parenting

^

Utterly agree

This is true, but there are other places you can take your badly behaved kids. No one’s going to bat an eyelid at them going feral in the woods, are they? Why take them to a museum..?!

I have some days when I am distressed enough to know I can’t parent as well as I’d like, on those days I don’t take my kids to museums!

Such an interesting theory, they compete with so much for our attention.

I wouldn’t for one second think that of you, because I have enough experience with SEN children to know that some children will react in certain ways.
My own child, when much younger, would scream when noise got too much.
But I am 99.9% sure that not every single one of those children today was ND.

It’s definitely not that kind of screaming. I know I have autism parent experience, but I honestly think most people can tell the difference. My son ( also severely autistic ) can also be very loud and in general people just ‘get’ that it’s his way of communicating.

Every single generation eventually complains about 'kids these days'. I don't believe it's getting worse, we're just getting old.

I was about to say YABU because my DCs appear feral but the older one has ADHD and is very impulsive and the younger one is desperate for attention (we are working on it) and has taken to copying him.
But while many of these are things my DC1 would do, he would be brought up sharpish by me, redirected if possible and if not taken out.

My kids can be absolutely appalling at times, I have no idea why they are like that - we’re firm with them but still kind and loving. They’re not spoilt. They just go bananas sometimes.

if it happens, I try to get them under control. If they won’t calm down then we leave, I won’t subject others to it for any longer than necessary.

Just as a balance though, some parents are still getting it right. On bank holiday Monday I was out shopping in a local retail park and came across a young mum and a little boy of about 5. She was looking at some jewellery next to where I was. He told her he wanted to go and see some Halloween stuff and she asked him politely to stay next to her and give her a few minutes and then she would take him. He did exactly what she said, took her hand and happily chatted away to her while she carried on looking at the jewellery.
I saw them again a few shops later and he was still chatting to his mum, at her side. She was chatting back to him and engaging with him. They seemed like a lovely little mother and son unit, he was a delight.

I also witnessed a lot of screaming and shouting children running around shops that day, so both him and his mum stood out to me

There are still decent parents around and some really lovely children, but unfortunately they are overshadowed by so many who aren’t.

I arranged to meet a friend for coffee today. We have a lovely coffee shop in town that has some outside tables. We is usually sit outside.

I was there first and went in to order. As I was stood at the counter I could hear screeching . Not distressed but the sound of someone deliberately doing it.

I look outside. There is some mums with 3 girls aged about 8-10. They are doing the screeching. The mums are looking at them indulgently and smiling. So they are doing it more.

I took a table inside. I was actually surprised they didn't tell them to STFU and seemed to be encouraging the behaviour.

It did mean my firmed and I have a long conversation about how entitled kids are now a days and she told me about a Netflix documentary she is watching about the same thing.

The thing I’ve noticed is the screaming. When did this become so common among younger children? I don’t mean frightened or unhappy screaming, just screaming for no apparent reason. DS2 is also autistic and noise-sensitive - it sends him into complete meltdown.

My autistic son screams for no apparent reason...

You’re clearly not ‘firm’ enough if you have to ‘try to get them under control’ 🙄 Try to get yourself under control if you think weak parenting is going to win you their affection when they are teenagers who have zero respect for you.

Parents dont have children to bring up them selfs they have children and expect others to do the parenting .
Like schools are there to teach not to raise your child gran parents are not to there for constant baby sitting and entitled parents get the hump when NO is said to them.
Theres always some adhd SEN ect that is said to be the fault like its a free pass for bad behaviour .
Some children do have these diagnoses and the parents do their best .
The screaming is awful its not a play kind of shouting its just screaming .
I hear alot of im so tired i want a break dp dh wont help me no family are helping me well you had kids thats your responsibility .
I dont understand some parents that have a baby when there knocking on 50 .
Gentle parenting is just another SM craze .
Parents putting there childs life online with the words having a melt down get offline and sort your child out .
Rant over.

Check if the museum does a relaxed opening. A lot of the London museums do them, often they start before opening time like 8am and you have to book a place as there's a limit on numbers (though most lazy parents won't manage to get their kids there that early anyway).

Totally agree, OP.

I was trying to have an early night on Sunday as I was up early for work the next day.

9.30 at night and a group of kids (about 12/13) were playing chicken on the road outside. The road is on a bend and the kids were standing on the bend, taking turns to jump out at cars going past, causing the drivers to swerve and toot their horns. Manic laughter and egging each other on.

I'm in Scotland. The schools are back and it wasn't a BH here.

Maybe I'm getting old and grumpy but fgs have an awareness of what your kids are up to

I agree with this. My eldest is profoundly autistic and intellectually disabled. He couldn't behave appropriately at museums, so we don't go (we tag team and take the other one sometimes). We go to places like woodlands and adventure parks he will enjoy and, yes, where he won't ruin it for everyone else. I'm amazed at how many people think that all people have a right to be anywhere they want behaving however they want! (Tbf if he would really love something at a museum we would of course take him, but we would manage it carefully and stay only as long as he was engaged and reasonably quiet.). Outside in the woods you can run and shout as much as you want and if anyone told him off they'd get an earful from me!

I've noticed the screaming/ squealing at my Brownies in the last couple of years, and our very male Cub pack is all touchy-feely, and can't keep their hands off each other, which can quickly escalate to getting pushy. They resume the behaviour very quickly within minutes of being reminded how to behave.

If you address behaviour, even in general terms, you can guarentee that the parents that complain will be the parents of the worst offenders.
The children who are neurodiverse are not the problem, and tend to struggle more from their peers behaving like this.

It's come in with the younger members of the units at the same time and this is the cohort that were not settled into school routines before heavy disruption with Covid restrictions. They spent more Rainbows/ Beavers time on zoom than normal meetings The older children who were y2+ when the disruption started are much calmer.

There is an ongoing parenting sub-culture that doesn't help, but what banning socialising for vast chunks of a year was leave these children to be indulged by sloppy parents with no external influences to learn from.

I have older children who would dearly love to be feral. One is neurodiverse and is easily stressed and responds by irrirating his sibling. Parenting is ongoing hard work. Constant reminders of how to behave, and the consequences if they don't, but generally they behave appropriately to their surroundings. The surroundings and timings need considering. Warning signs need spotting and responding too. Preparing, so they anticipate appropriately, have an appropriate energy level, not too hungry.
They could be feral very easily, and it would be far less stressful to let them roll on with it and not care. But I do care, and other people care, and no one else in the vincinity deserves to have their day or surroundings ruinned by unruly behaviour.
Some places are just no-go zones and beyond his coping ability, so we don't go, because that just wouldn't be fair on anyone.

I was about to walk through a doorway today and a woman smiled at me and gestured for me to wait. Cue a child of about 4 coming into view slightly, looking at me and standing still. Mum gently said ‘Come on now’ whilst smiling and saying hi me ‘they do like to take their time’. I looked at the child and said ‘Excuse me’ and squeezed past the child. Mum looked cross. Typical indulgent parent!