To ask why so many children are feral these days?

[ChocBanana]

I have two DC, one (13) with ASD and hypersensitivity, so she wears ear defenders and ear plugs in noisy environments.
However, today, we have had to leave a museum because of the behaviour of other kids.
I know it’s the last week of the holidays but we tend to prefer quieter places, or quieter times of day. We tend to go to museums and parks, woodlands or if we are going somewhere busier generally we go in the afternoon.

We went to a museum today near us, not a particularly big one. After about ten minutes, a mum came in with three kids and basically said “Off you go” and let them run riot. They were climbing on the exhibits, trying to pull things off the wall, picking up the listening device things and swinging them against the wall and one of them scribbled all over an information panel.
A member of staff asked them to be careful. The mum titled and says “Come on kids, we’re obviously not welcome.” Then on the way out one of them kicked a wall, leaving a scuff mark. As they left, another family came in, the was a display thing where you can pretend to dig for fossils, the two kids were throwing the sand at each other, then a third family came in, one of them, a teenager sat next to where my teenager was trying to regulate herself. She stood up and he instantly out his feet up on her bag then kicked it to the floor and put his feet up on the sofa.
The mum was chatting away to her partner, the youngest child was hiding under a shelf, then started pulling out all the display drawers at once and slamming them shut.

We had to leave at this point, my daughter was in tears.

Now, I said, I get that it’s the last week of the summer holidays. I get that many people are desperate for free things to do, and I know many children have various reasons for acting in various ways. I’m not asking for special treatment or being naive, but SERIOUSLY, AIBU to expect a certain level of behaviour in a museum?
If I am BU, any suggestions on where the hell I am supposed to take a 13 year old who struggles with people at the best of times?

Oh definitely but mixed aged groups of children in cities would normally be roaming around the estates a lot of the day, less likely to be hit by a car, much more normalised.

My dad grew up in a city and spent lots of time kicking about near the canal, walking across the city to parks unsupervised, playing in estates or even abandoned buildings etc. Don't think this is completely a good thing, pretty unsafe, but they probably expended lots of energy and got certain needs met.

I think if we saw a group of 6 - 12 year olds walking around the estates of Leeds today for many hours people would be a bit concerned.

I've noticed it more. I don't like most of the 'gentle' parenting.

You weren’t around so don’t know. Opinions mean nothing in that context. It is worse now. Fact.

Agree, lots of feral kids and crap parents. Just spent the last year renting on a new estate, where there was a local FB group with lots of moaning about the high 'service charges' for the play areas, footpaths etc. Lots of vandalism with lights being broken, fences pulled down etc, meaning additional charges for repair and replacement. Clearly done by kids living on the estate ( on edge of town). You'd think some might come to the conclusion that it might be THEIR kids and act accordingly ... but no.

They sound like the offspring of the type of kids I had to deal with working at a museum in the 1990s.

The general prohibition against smacking explains a lot of it. DH and I were both smacked sometimes as children up to about 10. I was even smacked sometimes by other people's parents. (I was not a naughty child.)

On the other hand, when I was a child 13 year olds weren't described as noise sensitive and I never saw any child or teenager wearing ear plugs/ ear protection other than (when slightly older) at concerts or in other situations where the noise level might damage their hearing. Nor were people routinely described as ND, having ADHD etc. I in fact took medication as a child for ADHD but no one would ever have mentioned it, and my parents would never have used it as a reason to explain poor behaviour in public. There was in general a lot more shame and punishment.

My son (6) can be a bit of a nightmare and we have had ADHD suggested to us on a number of occasions. However, we live on a busy road with few children around and little greenery, so he has to wait for us to take him to parks etc, so spends a fair amount of time indoors, and not running off steam.

We just spent a week staying with relatives in Ireland who have a boy his age and live in a safe cul de sac where the kids call round to each other's houses to go out to play, as we also did when we went over there as children each summer. He was a different child, so much better behaved and happier and less bothered about devices.

Now we are back, he is as he was before, to the extent that if I could workwise, I would seriously consider moving over there, the difference is so stark. I do think the formal playdate culture we have here (at least where i live), and lack of opportunities for kids to run about freely and play with each other is a big part of the problem with many kids' behaviour, though I also realise that is just my opinion.

Also, on the screaming so many people mention, I have never noticed it. And DS is not a screamer, just a runner, so it is not just that i am desensitised. I do wonder if some people are just more sensitive to noise than others?

Opinions mean nothing in that context. It is worse now. Fact.
@Meowandthen this is also an opinion. Just because it happens to be your opinion doesn't make it a fact. HTH

@Oopsididitagain12 i agree, I’m Irish but I think it depends on where you are in Ireland as I grew up in a city and wasn’t outdoors much but my country cousins had an adventurous lifestyle. Play date culture is weird in UK, never heard of formal play dates until I moved here and I’ve lived in several countries.

As a teacher of over 20 years, I have noticed a massive difference in children’s behaviour.

At the beginning of my career, you’d have one or two challenging learners in a class.
These days, you have challenging classes, with a handful of excellent behaved children, who tend to go unnoticed as teachers are busy dealing with everyone else and trying to manage behaviour.

what’s changed in that time?

Children spend too long on screens, even into the early hours. They don’t get enough sleep or attention at home. Lack of sleep however, has been extremely damaging.

Children are far more narcissistic and less empathetic. Even through the school day, too many are filming and re-filming themselves for TikTok and likes.

If you remove a child’s phone even just putting it onto the teacher’s table for the lesson, with the intention that they will have it back at the end of the hour, there is a meltdown. They are suffering with addiction to technology and the stimulation that brings.

They have been brought up on screens and devices from an early age. Their parents often seeing them quietly sitting with an iPad, and have interpreted that as good behaviour and allowed this to continue rather than engaging.

Parent’s also feel guilt about how they have brought up their child. I did to a certain degree. A full time working mother, sending her three year old to Nursery every day, instead of being there with him. Over -compensating in those few hours a day you get with them and allowing them to get away with little things, as you want to be a ‘loving parent‘ for that time.

We often see misplaced ‘love’ when parents stand up for their children, side with them and condone their behaviour, against the ‘bully teacher’ who just randomly dislikes their kid.

I remember what the teachers were like when i was at school. They, on a whole, were not nice people. They were aggressive bullies.

Thought nothing of stapling kids to walls (yes) screaming at you, calling you 'stupid child', screwing up your work if you did it wrong, humiliating you, belittling you. Class was rife with sexism and misogyny. Male teachers were either scary or complete letches. Perverts that wandered through the girls sports changing rooms, drunkards with booze in their desks. Ignoring the kids with issues, calling them useless, or just refusing to teach them. Expelling kids who wouldn't get the desired grades before exams were taken. Just writing whole kids off and letting them go through school without even being able to read because they weren't worth the time/attention.

We were, on a whole, either scared of them or didn't give a fuck and created merry hell.

Kids today are NOT more feral, there is just more of an attempt to control them, rather than ignore them/chuck them out of the classroom.

Those students are now parents, and teachers wonder why we're more likely to stick up for our kids than believe the teachers?

We just spent a week staying with relatives in Ireland who have a boy his age and live in a safe cul de sac where the kids call round to each other's houses to go out to play, as we also did when we went over there as children each summer.

Kids routinely do that in my area which is in the UK.

I might get slaughtered for saying this but I have been a teacher in the last few years and have met a fair few of them who are pretty horrible towards children. Of course, they're not allowed to hit children any more but there are other ways to be cruel...

Some schools are really not very nice places to be and I think children have had enough of being controlled for very significant portions of their childhoods. I genuinely would not want to be a child now and I would tend to trust many children who said a teacher was unkind or unfair to them.

This ^^
I’m a grandmother, I am often dismayed by children’s behaviour with screaming and running amok commonplace almost everywhere. Often the adults are either completely ignoring, on their phones or smiling indulgently.
Our local garden centre has banned children from one eating area, the behaviour of preschoolers was beyond disgusting. The mothers drop in after the morning school run, buy one coffee and spend the next few hours letting their brats run riot. The have been running across the tables, climbing all over the sofas dropping food that these mums bring with them. Dirty nappies have been found shoved under seat cushions and wee and poo on the floor under tables. Smashed crockery was met with denials and shrugs. The manager is a friend, she said you had to see it to believe it.
Children seem to get given whatever they want, imo too many are expected to entertain themselves on iPads and electronics etc from a very early age (there are threads on here about buying iPads for 2 year old!)
I really pity teachers having to try and teach some kids I see.

So very true. Expecting instant gratification and the ‘I want it now’ generation as well as children just unable to use their imagination and entertain themselves nowadays.

In my life as a pupil, parent and teacher, I have never met a teacher who fit your description. I’m not denying that there may be a few bad eggs, but I’m sorry, I don’t believe most are anything like this and therefore there is no reason for a lack of trust based on a minority.

More teachers support, help and encourage children, than don’t. I treat children how I would like my own treated and that’s the ethos across my school. Even though I have a track record of going above and beyond for the children I teach, some parents will still disregard any concerns I raise regarding their child.

It’s an excuse to say that generally teachers are terrible people and therefore parental distrust and neglect to discipline their own children is acceptable.

That's good to know. Sadly not the case round us, but then again, a PP has already said it wasn't true where she was in Ireland. So I guess it varies, probably depending on how close to the city you live, or even what your road is like. Still, it is what I miss now we're home.

You're lucky, teachers like you, are, in my experience, in the minority. I've worked in nurseries and schools, and the conversations that go on in staff rooms, away from parents, about kids with difficulties, or differences absolutely appal me.

Kids written off a 'feral' will always struggle to shine when they're never given the chance to be better.

How silly. You have been told the same by people who remember. We didn’t have mobile phones to record the minutiae of our lives 20+ years ago but we have memories. You don’t, so hush now as you are plain wrong.

Sorry are you telling me I don't have a memory and therefore what you tell me must be correct?? Okaaayy 😆
You're wrong btw. Kids today are loads better behaved than they were in the 90s. Pretty much all the teens I knew then were out getting drunk or taking ecstasy. Nowadays they're in the gym, getting themselves selfie ready.

Problem is you also get judged if child is well behaved, with he implications they are hit, has happened to me and I've never hit or even used naughty step. Just positive enforcement on good behaviour and talking and explaining consequences of bad behaviour.

I went to school in the sixties, quite a strict old fashioned Grammar School and never experienced anything like this.
Where and when did you go to school?

Sorry my past was to Phantom Unicorn not you. I don't have the edit button.

I was a teenager in the 70s. I lived in a tenement flat on an exceptionally busy road. We never played on the street. We did go to one of the large public parks.
Firstly, with my parents and then in little groups to play. There was always a park keeper who looked out for us or told us off if we went on the grass.
As we got older we would go to the art galleries not just for culture! As a 15 year it was a case of 'talent' spotting.
I wore a very strict uniform had loads of homework. We didn't have so many after school activities. Most families couldn''t afford 5 or 6 after school activities.
In Primary school we had homework clubs and brownies.
One of the differences was we didn't have loads of TV, we would read, use our imaginations etc.
We were taught appropriate behaviour and language to use in different situations.
I don't remember being taught as such things they were just modeled by our parents. None of whom swore and neither do my siblings and I.
Yes, there were always a vey small percentage of people who didn't behave. They didn't get away with in general.
As a teacher I do think behaviour is more demanding and some parents are rather blinkered.
No one is saying that parents are bad or children are awful but we need to see the faults, help support our children. It is not a criticism of an individual or a type of person. Also, we have to use praise appropriately.
OP your experience sounded awful.
I am a mother of a ND adult child and know how hard it can be in situations.

No problem. It does seem as if she/he has had a terrible experience in education.

My teachers in the 80’s and 90’s were mostly very good people who I trusted and who helped me get a good set of grades. A few inspired me to became a teacher.

I have taught since 2002 and I have met a few useless teachers, but none who have been malicious, cruel or abusive. I’m sure there are some out there like that, but I can’t believe they outnumber the ones who work really hard for their students.

I genuinely believe the problem lies with phones and devices, late nights, lack of sleep and parents who can’t / won’t be there for their children or can’t / won’t discipline their children. Oh and as a pp said, the rubbish people eat today. It’s most certainly a societal issue.