To ask why so many children are feral these days?

[ChocBanana]

I have two DC, one (13) with ASD and hypersensitivity, so she wears ear defenders and ear plugs in noisy environments.
However, today, we have had to leave a museum because of the behaviour of other kids.
I know it’s the last week of the holidays but we tend to prefer quieter places, or quieter times of day. We tend to go to museums and parks, woodlands or if we are going somewhere busier generally we go in the afternoon.

We went to a museum today near us, not a particularly big one. After about ten minutes, a mum came in with three kids and basically said “Off you go” and let them run riot. They were climbing on the exhibits, trying to pull things off the wall, picking up the listening device things and swinging them against the wall and one of them scribbled all over an information panel.
A member of staff asked them to be careful. The mum titled and says “Come on kids, we’re obviously not welcome.” Then on the way out one of them kicked a wall, leaving a scuff mark. As they left, another family came in, the was a display thing where you can pretend to dig for fossils, the two kids were throwing the sand at each other, then a third family came in, one of them, a teenager sat next to where my teenager was trying to regulate herself. She stood up and he instantly out his feet up on her bag then kicked it to the floor and put his feet up on the sofa.
The mum was chatting away to her partner, the youngest child was hiding under a shelf, then started pulling out all the display drawers at once and slamming them shut.

We had to leave at this point, my daughter was in tears.

Now, I said, I get that it’s the last week of the summer holidays. I get that many people are desperate for free things to do, and I know many children have various reasons for acting in various ways. I’m not asking for special treatment or being naive, but SERIOUSLY, AIBU to expect a certain level of behaviour in a museum?
If I am BU, any suggestions on where the hell I am supposed to take a 13 year old who struggles with people at the best of times?

Dramatico · Today 08:19
ChocBanana · Yesterday 22:35

What are you actually talking about? Are you a) in the UK and b) aware we’ve had a right wing, bordering on fascist Government for 13 years?

Freedom of religion, faith, sexuality, access to birth control and abortion, protections for minorities, freedom to protest, full ballot box democracy, free press, social media unrestricted, freedom to leave the country to travel, women allowed to work, Government openly criticised by media including state broadcaster...

Girl you need to learn what facism means. And check your privilege, because there are people out there who do live and have lived under fascistic governments, and you make light of their suffering by saying silly things like this.

I completely agree, Dramatico. Anyone who thinks the UK has, or ever has had, a fascist government - or even an extreme right-wing government, doesn't know what they're talking about. I hate the expression 'educate yourself', but in this case, OP, definitely do, because if you know anything about actual fascism you wouldn't trivialise the term in this way.

How can it be disingenuous? I am honestly not old enough to know if it is worse or not I have no research evidence to back up my claims as I’m sure many on here don’t either.

But seriously people tend to look back at the good old days through rose tinted glasses!! It wasn’t all that great when we were growing up! And I’m fed up of people harping on how much more terrible it is today and how much more badly behaved children are today. It’s just nonsense in my opinion.

There are 12 years between 6 and 12.

There are 12 years between 6 and 12.

There is 6 years between 6 and 12...

🤨

Typo. I meant between 6 and 18.

@LightDrizzle

"You are obviously not letting him rampage like the parents the OP is describing but your son is only 6, so maybe he is still just too young to enjoy museums and art galleries in the way they are intended to be enjoyed ie. not like a playground. That will probably change in the future as his impulse control improves and his cognitive abilities too. The fact that other similar age children might enjoy them is neither here nor there, children are all different but most 6 year olds aren’t going to get the stimulation from paintings on a wall to stay engaged and benefit. There is nothing wrong with admitting it’s not working and leaving and trying again in a few months."

Thankyou @LightDrizzle for understanding and articulating the meaning of my my post.
We obviously have more success in places like the transport museum /science museum but usually other museums are 45 mins max.
I'm happy with that as I feel it's enough exposure for everyone before things take a turn for the worse. And when I say worse, it's not like he's manhandling the artefacts, it's more that he gets frustrated that he can't touch them so he can find out what they feel like, how they are made etc.
It will take time and we'll get there I'm sure but until then we'll continue to go to these places (and also the parks and playgrounds).
He genuinely loves learning - and museums are a great way to learn about history - eg the titanic exhibition in Liverpool - he wanted to read all the names of the dead to see if any of them shared his name (they didn't).
I don't want to take that away from him.

I have also noticed this and the parents just ignoring it... it's so bizarre to me

So, you aren't old enough to know because you weren't there - and yet you think people saying children, overall, are more badly behaved today are talking nonsense, even though many of them are, presumably, older than you.

Okay ............

It’s that awful, but true cliche again though - entitlement.

My child’s needs and wants are more important than anyone else in this play area/museum/restaurant. It’s their right to be a child and play (boisterously) regardless of the impact on others. S/he’s only having fun. It’s other people that are intolerant etc etc. They’re only kids being kids.

A huge part of parenting is training your child to become a responsible member of society. That doesn’t mean not having fun, but understanding that other people want to have their own down time too and no one has anymore right that anyone else to dominate - and that includes children. Being under 18 doesn’t give them a bye to unacceptable behaviour. No one should expect silence and perfect little prince/esses but just a little awareness of impact on others. Children are inherently selfish and egotistical. Nature programmed them that way in order in order that they get the nurture they need but they also require steering and structure to learn to care about others.

The classic deflection or default setting today is, “Well, you’d soon complain if Sebastian was glued to a computer! He’s only letting off steam!”
What Sebastian does indoors is nothing to do with me but it certainly doesn’t justify Sebastian ruining other people’s - including other children’s - pleasure.

Just in case anyone thinks I’m holier than thou, when my son was about 7 we visited a local museum. He had been told about expectations about behaviour, how we wouldn’t be too long in this place and that he just needed to be patient for a short while. Within 10 minutes of arriving, he started rushing about, so he got a very stern final warning and I explained how old and valuable the gold exhibits in the glass cases were. In order to highlight the gold, the general lighting in the room was very dim with spotlights within.

Everything settled down for 5 minutes then suddenly there was a bang as display was hit by a small person hurtling by at speed and everything inside rattled! In the gloom, I physically and furiously grabbed him by the arm as he sped by and whispered loudly, “Right, that’s it! I’ve told you that is not how we behave in a museum. I’m taking you out right now!”

Except it wasn’t my son. He was calmly with DH doing what he had been asked. Cue very awkward moment moment with total strangers who also had a son of similar age, height, clothing…

I'm allowed a opinion. I would also put bets on most people on this thread not being old enough to know too!

As I said most people's memories of the past are distorted I would like to see some evidence to back up the claims of all these people saying children are worse today to than they were in the past..oh wait you haven't got any? Just anecdotal stories which is the same.

So bore off with your grumpy aren't children terrible these days rubbish!

Wait until he is eight or nine! And then maybe ask him what he is interested in, and go to a museum of whatever that meets his interests.

I think a lot of the ‘bad behaviour’ in museums etc is because the children are too young to be interested in that format ( not your precious genius, of course😉).

When I worked in a leisure/ heritage organisation, we had a lot of trouble when thé well meaning wanted very small children to walk ‘nicely’ around the tropical greenhouses, when what they wanted was to roll down the grassy banks ( and push each other into the pond, but we didn’t allow that). The older children who were interested in plants and had chosen to come were delightful. Older visitors enjoyed answering their questions.

@itsgettingweird I had an almost identical experience last week. Was having ice creams sitting at an outside table in a historical paved pedestrianised area of a "naice" MC town. Three very MC women chatting whilst their beautifully-dressed MC kids charged around the area screaming at the tops of their voices. It was that random, high-pitched screaming that gives you a jump and goes right through your brain). Occasionally they'd glance at them and give tinkly laughs. Clearly didn't give one shit that they were ruining the experience for those of us trying to enjoy the sunshine.

Of course there is no actual evidence as to whether or not children are worse today than in the past - what a stupid suggestion!

I can however assure you that children did not constantly scream as has been mentioned several times on this thread, and the majority did not run amok in eating places, museums etc. Ask any teacher who has been doing the job for years what they think.

As for saying "most people's memories of the past are distorted" - you know "most people" do you?

As for your last comment - you do realise that it wasn't me who actually started this thread, nor am I the only one who has agreed with the OP, so maybe it's you who should bore off.

Actually there is evidence that most people memories are distorted with time. So there you go! Most people on this thread seem to be so grumpy about children and have a low tolerance.

The OP had a shit day she needs to get over it. People do investigate and research all sorts of things so not a ridiculous suggestion. As said I simply don't believe children are any worse.

Oh and don't pull the I am a teacher nonsense as so am I.

I can however assure you that children did not constantly scream as has been mentioned several times on this thread, and the majority did not run amok in eating places, museums etc. Ask any teacher who has been doing the job for years what they think.

Maybe not but that absolutely doesn't mean they were quieter. my old Nan told me MANY times that she used to wonder what was wrong with my dad and his friends when they were children because as soon as they stepped outside they would roar at the top of their lungs and run around in circles. No words, just roaring. My dad is 73.

So maybe kids have always been loud.

and the majority did not run amok in eating places, museums etc.

And this but might be because they tended to get left outside!! Sat outside the pub for hours with a packet of crisps!!

Agree with you a bit on this.

I do feel sorry for the OP but this is what children are like and have always been like. She needs to move on.

I just wish people weren't so horrible about children.

I've long been a defender of children and teenagers against folk who think behaviour is getting worse. But after several very bad experiences in the last 3 years I have just made the sad decision to stop working and volunteering with them in the outdoors. Just so much very poor and rude behaviour and disrespect. It's such a shame for the young people that they aren't being guided into how to be respectful of others.

In my experience, as a parent in public you can't win.

If you discipline your child you're likely to get a lecture off some busy body threatening to report you for daring to handle/raise your voice at your little darling, or someone accuse you of 'performance' parenting.

My oldest is 17, and Autistic/ADHD, i've had to actively parent him on many occasions in public because of his behaviour, and the fact i refuse to allow him to behave like a feral creature, or had to restrain him during a meltdown, but nearly every time i have, i've either been accosted, or glared at.

It makes public parenting very hard to do... because even if they're not tutting at you parenting, the more you step in/speak up, the more they judge as clearly your child is ill behaved for you to NEED to correct them that much.

Shit parents.

I do.

I make a point of complementing parents when their children are well behaved.

There have always been some crap parenting.

The nearest pub to me has a carvery, an indoor and outdoor play area, a families eating section, an adults only eating section and an adults only drinking only section.

Several years ago a small child, looked to be 2-3 came wandering through the eating area with a bare bum and a dirty nappy in hand.

He wandered through because his parents were in the adult only drinking area. Yes I judged.

How is that child going to lear appropriate behaviour if the parents put them in the play area and leave them?

Not excusing it but perhaps one theory could be that when my parents were kids (70s) there was ample opportunity to be a bit feral and self regulate naturally. Many of them lived in rural areas and roamed all day. There was less homework and academic expectations. There was also far, far less adult oversight and moderation and they could play in whatever way they wanted. Fewer cars on the road, so even urban areas kids could play out.

Of course back in the day wasn't some sort of kid utopia but I think parts of 70s / 80s childhood were conducive to some parts of child development.

Now the average 9 year old has a very large portion of their day structured and moderated by adults within quite a few constraints. They might live in a small terrace or flat with no garden and no safe local areas to roam. 9 year old often aren't allowed to play out without adult supervision. Some live in areas where it's difficult to safely let off steam in the neighbourhood. They then go to school and are constricted even further, playing rough and tumble is severely limited etc etc etc.

It's just a theory of mine, might not be a very good one 😂

No I agree with you. Some kids gel just fine with the modern world, my DS would have thrived in the pre tech era roaming around a farm all day needing to dig and gather stuff 😅

We demand a lot of children. The forest schools etc help but they are such a limited part of their lives. I am incredibly lucky to live within walking distance to lots of play parks and green areas but we do live in a flat now and lots of other children across the country do not have easy access to such things.

I agree to a point. But since terraced houses have been a thing since at least Victorian times I think you’re clutching at straws on the living conditions bit. Also, cities definitely existed a century ago and children definitely lived in them…