To ask why so many children are feral these days?

[ChocBanana]

I have two DC, one (13) with ASD and hypersensitivity, so she wears ear defenders and ear plugs in noisy environments.
However, today, we have had to leave a museum because of the behaviour of other kids.
I know it’s the last week of the holidays but we tend to prefer quieter places, or quieter times of day. We tend to go to museums and parks, woodlands or if we are going somewhere busier generally we go in the afternoon.

We went to a museum today near us, not a particularly big one. After about ten minutes, a mum came in with three kids and basically said “Off you go” and let them run riot. They were climbing on the exhibits, trying to pull things off the wall, picking up the listening device things and swinging them against the wall and one of them scribbled all over an information panel.
A member of staff asked them to be careful. The mum titled and says “Come on kids, we’re obviously not welcome.” Then on the way out one of them kicked a wall, leaving a scuff mark. As they left, another family came in, the was a display thing where you can pretend to dig for fossils, the two kids were throwing the sand at each other, then a third family came in, one of them, a teenager sat next to where my teenager was trying to regulate herself. She stood up and he instantly out his feet up on her bag then kicked it to the floor and put his feet up on the sofa.
The mum was chatting away to her partner, the youngest child was hiding under a shelf, then started pulling out all the display drawers at once and slamming them shut.

We had to leave at this point, my daughter was in tears.

Now, I said, I get that it’s the last week of the summer holidays. I get that many people are desperate for free things to do, and I know many children have various reasons for acting in various ways. I’m not asking for special treatment or being naive, but SERIOUSLY, AIBU to expect a certain level of behaviour in a museum?
If I am BU, any suggestions on where the hell I am supposed to take a 13 year old who struggles with people at the best of times?

But actually, your example is flawed. Because we have to assume that the prevalence of ND is the same in the adult population as it is in the children's population. But the vast bulk of ND adults at some point still were able to learn how to modify their behaviour etc.

And as others have pointed out, while the OP asked about "feral kids" the vast bulk of the responses have highlighted that the issue is the parents, not the children. My nephew is, frankly, appallingly badly behaved and it is unbearable. BUT, his parents, unfortunately, are also appallingly bad parents and have never taught him any better. I don't blame him, I blame them.

We arehostile to kids

My parents said it was much worse when we were kids - so 70s early 80s.

I've been in locations were people have seen our then young kids and based on other's parenting assumed they were going to be noisy and disruptive and they were well behaved - I know as people do tell you - it's not welcoming to be prejudged like that.

So I think poor parenting and noisy kids actually erodes wider societies patience's so there's less around for those who need more tolerance and those off moments they all have.

But actually, your example is flawed. Because we have to assume that the prevalence of ND is the same in the adult population as it is in the children's population. But the vast bulk of ND adults at some point still were able to learn how to modify their behaviour etc

WTH does this mean? I'm not talking about ND kids or adults. Just that kids have not got the same level of cognitive development as an average adult. You can't possibly expect the same response to a situation from a 4 year old and a 40 year old??

And that to me is great parenting. It’s recognising when enough is enough and when behaviour is impacting other people. It’s also sending a message to the child that there are consequences of certain actions and that if, after a warning it continues, we will be leaving.

My two were chalk and cheese. My DD was very biddable and happy to play calmly, either on her own or with others. My DS was the very opposite. He hit 2 and the switch flicked. He would throw himself on the floor and roar and scream if he wanted something. He didn’t care where or with whom. DH and myself regularly scooped him up and left shops or restaurants with him screaming and kicking and drove home with our heads ringing with the noise and people tutting as we walked by.

I remember throwing him on his bed one day, slamming the door and sitting alone in the living room crying because I feared if I went upstairs again, I would seriously hurt him, such was my frustration. It would have been so much easier to short term appease him and it was without doubt a battle of nerves. But slowly he got the message that we weren’t having it. That the fact we left enjoyable places because he had kicked off made him connect cause and effect and eventually, whenever he teetered on the edge, a gentle reminder of what would happen was usually sufficient.

He has grown up into the loveliest temperament now - who knows whether that would have happened anyway - and is patient, calm and works in a profession where having a rational and unflappable personality is vital, so there is always light at the end of the tunnel!

Don't think it is any worse now than it was 40 plus years ago.. as other posters have said we tend to focus on the apparently badly behaved children forgetting how many well behaved children there are out and about.

I also find these kind of posts so judgmental - people have no idea of what is going with families with children who misbehave in public.

This is so lovely to hear and gives me some hope! I think the fact that we are so stressed and put so much effort into dealing with the fallout shows that perhaps we are not the type of parents OP was talking about.

I also find these kind of posts so judgmental - people have no idea of what is going with families with children who misbehave in public.

If I were in the OP's position, having planned a lovely day out with my kids to have it ruined by people who cannot parent effectively, I'd absolutely judge.

Also, I doubt the OP cares what the mitigating circumstances are around kids being allowed to run around a museum screaming or damanging property when she clearly stated that it distressed her DC. I wouldn't care either - my priority would be the wellbeing of my kid, who although not ND, would actually be quite distressed by this behaviour, too.

Equally, if I was working in one of these places or volunteering my time, I wouldn't care if the family had a shit time of it recently. We've all had periods of our lives that have been challenging - it isn't an excuse to press the off switch when your job is to ensure that your kids grow up to be functioning adults.

This is the inherent problem with society. Allowances are always made for people who haven't got their shit in order. We all know and have seen the type of kids that the OP is talking about, it's disingenuous to conflate the problem she highlighted with SEN / troubled families / insert excuse as apporpriate.

Allowances are always made for people who haven't got their shit in order

What an interesting way to interpret compassion and empathy 🙄

Of course people are going to judge just like I am judging most people on this thread...she had a bad day shit happens get over it!

It...

You are obviously not letting him rampage like the parents the OP is describing but your son is only 6, so maybe he is still just too young to enjoy museums and art galleries in the way they are intended to be enjoyed ie. not like a playground. That will probably change in the future as his impulse control improves and his cognitive abilities too. The fact that other similar age children might enjoy them is neither here nor there, children are all different but most 6 year olds aren’t going to get the stimulation from paintings on a wall to stay engaged and benefit. There is nothing wrong with admitting it’s not working and leaving and trying again in a few months.

You say YOU want him to go to art galleries and museums which is laudable but it’s clearly not giving him the opportunity to physically engage and it’s a high stakes environment incorporating valuable items with spectators. Playing board games at home and playground games with friends and family all flex impulse control, focus, turn-taking abilities and lots of other important skills. Calling it a day at 6 when he is desperate to get at the exhibits and play with or on them is not cutting that avenue off for him for the rest of his childhood and life beyond. Equally he may never be one for the galleries and museums and that’s okay too, as long as he’s given the opportunity to find out and you are clearly going to provide that. I was never going to be one for sport, despite the opportunities offered at school. Sport is great and brings many benefits but my lacking ability/ participation hasn’t blighted my life.

Some galleries are happy for children to draw and copy the paintings and provide tables. If he likes drawing you could take supplies in and give it a whirl but be prepared to leave when he gets bored. We are lucky in the U.K. in having so many free museums and galleries so a 10 min highlights visit doesn’t have to entail costs.

My point was that the empathy and compassion for the OP's kid (who was upset) was missing.

If anyone would care to enlighten me as to why someone who are allows their kids to willfully damage things in a museum are deserving of any empathy at all, I'm all ears . . .

Feral kids are because of poor parenting nd or nt.

If your child cannot cope in the situation like a pp you remove them. To continue to stay and let them just get on with it is poor parenting. In a nt child is just teaches them bugger all and that they can act however they want and in a nd child your not helping them by putting them somewhere they cannot deal with/cope with.

Poor behaviour needs correction regardless of the individual child but both for the same and sometimes different reasons. A Nd child being in a noisy place making them melt down because it’s too much is just as much poor parenting if you don’t remove them for their own sake tbh as is letting little shits climb over the ropes off displays.

But I want him to go to museums and art galleries. Why should be consigned to only going to parks because he's a bit noisy.

^

YOU want to go to museums. YOU and you only. Not your six year old. You need to stay at the park. That's what parenting lively six year old lads is - exercise and running around

There are very few genuine excuses for (non-send) kids to be wilfully screaming and shrieking at an ear-piercing level. Wasps stings and cold water maybe, but otherwise no.

People who allow their kids in to do this in public places are wankers.

I have a theory it is too much time on devices. I know a number of kids who seem very calm with devices and easy to parent. When the devices are off the kids seem to let all the energy out and go berserk. It is almost like they are acting like game characters, with no consequences.

I am in Holland at the moment. Been to lots of museums the last few days. It has been rather rainy this last week. I haven't seen any bad behaviour. I think the difference is parents interact with their children here.. Even in the Rijk museum which is massive and not hands on. Today at a castle I had the pleasure of watching children involved on historical crafts, youngsters on a holiday club from the city enjoying the castle museum and gardens. All were polite, didn't scream or throw anything. They were between the ages of 8 and 12. Chatting to the staff they mention a few were ND.
I was with my adult DC who is classically autistic. They have always known how to behave in public. Yes my DC has stims but does not interfere with others.
I would would divert, remove from situation or do plan A to Z so they didn't embarrass their siblings or make it difficult for others to enjoy things.
Tonight there is a family of 3 under 7s at the next table. Engaging with their parents having dinner ("8.30pm here).
Happy chirpy noises. Three little girls.
Earlier in my holiday I was at a rather 'nice' food and drink festival. I doubt if I would have attempted it with my children when they were young.
Two lovely wee boys sat and played with cars beside us until their food arrived. They quickly put their toys in the bag andsat at the table chatting to their parents. I think the youngest was under 3 and the eldest about 5.
I sometimes wonder if some parents actually like their children or ever interact with them.
All children need to have acceptable behaviour modled to them.
Parents need to interact with them.
If they can't get attention in a shared activity they may resort to attention seeking behaviour.
The sad thing is when that behaviour doesn't get attention from switched off parents.
The whole world works, the whole world lived through COVID and lock downs. We all have stress but it doesn't stop us being parents and members of our community and society.
No one gave us a manual for the above or parenthood. Sometimes we might not live up to our ideals but it doesn't mean we have to relive it every day

I feel for the quiet SEN kids who go under the radar.
Legally we need to follow their EHCP but we can't as we are dealing with behaviour. Teachers look at us as if we are miracle workers with behaviour!

They still have all those options, then there's supermarkets, fast food places etc

Absolutely this! Noise is terrifying for our struggling wildlife and the last thing those of use who enjoy being peaceful in nature need either!

The thing I’ve noticed is the screaming. When did this become so common among younger children?

When parents substituted screens for attention, so that they don't learn normal interaction

This is such a interesting theory. I'd never thought of it quite like this before.

It really is worse, much worse. Disingenuous to claim otherwise.

Too many children who aren’t told no.

I agree, it really, really, is worse now. Some children are brought up to believe the world revolves around them, other have parents who don't care enough to teach them how to behave.

People really do notice children who are well behaved btw.

I'm not in the UK, and fortunately haven't experienced the screaming others are talking about.

Er no that's not correct. I wouldn't take him the Louvre or the National portrait gallery.
I'm talking about bog standard museums that you get in town centres and cities.
I think it's important for kids to be in those situations so they can learn and practice how to behave.
I can't just wait till he's 18 and then go "come on then, you should be old enough to behave in a museum now. Let's go".